Ammonia question

[stangd1909]

I cycled my tank for 6 weeks, all the numbers were perfect. I just bought my first fish yesterday. I checked the ammonia level tonight and it was at .23 Is this something that is normal when adding your first fish, and should I be stressing about the level? All my other level are perfect. i am going to add a Ammonia Alert, does anyone have one of these, do they work good?

 

[jdyer88]

the level is something to be concerned about, as far as the additive you mentioned i don't know...

 

[stangd1909]

the level is something to be concerned about, as far as the additive you mentioned i don't know...

Ammonia Alert is just a gauge you put in your tank or sump that monitor the ammonia levels.

As for my ammonia level, my LFS had me add 2 cap fulls of Prime. He told me to monitor the ammonia level, and I will do a water change on Wednesday. My level is not in the yellow,but not in the green....kinda in the middle.

 

[Percula9]

How did you cycle the tank?

 

[stangd1909]

The first week I had only sand in the tank. Everyday for 7 days I added this bio stuff. At the end of 7 days I added my filter sock and my Live rock, I also added 15-20 LBS of live rock into the sump. I let it run like that for about 4 weeks. I did a water change and let it run for another week (so 6 weeks all together). It was good to go after that, I took water up to the LFS and they said it looked good and I was ready for fish. I used tap water with prime in it to fill the tank. When I did my water change, I used already mix saltwater from my LFS.

 

[Sk8r]

first, though too late now, the tapwater fill is going to give you fits with algae; poke the blue number under my avatar: my blog has a bit on algae fighting, when you get there.


meanwhile your emergency: you left out two steps in your setup, first, the two to four weeks of having only hermits and snails in there breaking the tank in with a mild amount of poo...letting the bacteria increase. Going straight to fish pushed it a bit, and that was the second step, since you don't say anything about having quarantined this fish for 4 weeks: crossing fingers for you that it's healthy and doesn't bring a parasite into your tank. You don't say what fish. So, working in the dark, here, first of all, don't feed it but once a day: it'll take 4 weeks to starve to death with nothing to eat at all, 3 days to die of ammonia, so you can see getting that ammonia down is absolutely paramount.

Tell us species and size and we can be of more specific help. I hope its a herbivore.

Prime is exactly what you ought to do. Keep in close touch and we'll help you out.

 

[stangd1909]

Well it is a stars and stripes puffer (5 inches). He is very healthy and doing great. When I first bought him, the LFS told me i was buying a dog face puffer, and that he was the perfect fish for my tank. I hadn't researched my puffers, so I bought him believing that what's he was ( learned from this mistake).


Now come to find out he is going to be a huge puffer. My LFS ( not the one that sold me the puffer) left out the first stage for cycling, with the snails and hermits. The puffer is my only fish, and I won't be getting anything else anytime soon. As for feeding, i have been told once a day, every other day...which is better?

Thanks for the help.

 

[stangd1909]

I got the ole "fish will only grow to the size of the tank they are in" speech. Honestly not knowing any better I believed him. After more research obviously that's not true.

 

[Percula9]

Now your tank is actually cycling. The live rock you put in, was it cured or uncured?

 

[stangd1909]

I got if from another reefer that tore down his tank. He had it set-up for a while, so it was good to go.

 

[stangd1909]

Do skimmer help keep ammonia down?

 

[Rocdoc]

Huh. Sounds like it is time to look for a new LFS to replace the two who seem to be selling you a bill of goods. You should have been advised to get a CUC before introducing your first fish and a Star and Stripe Puffer is not exactly a good fish for a newly cycled tank. Although theoretically omnivorous, it leans more toward carnivore than herbivore. This can worsen your ammonia problem.

As an aside, there are several things to learn from your LFS interaction. First, I never trust a fish store to tell me when my tank is "ready" for fish. They are in the business of selling fish, so they have an incentive to tell you your tank is ready when it may not be. Second, I would not take any advice from a fish seller who doesn't know the difference between a dog face and a star and stripe puffer. My teenage daughter saw a dog face in an aquarium at the LFS and said, "Hey, that fish has a face that looks like a dog's!" Your LFS should be able to tell. Finally, this shows the importance of doing your own research on a potential fish purchase. A reputable store will let you put down a deposit on a fish, holding it for you while you go home and do as much research as you can on that species.

As for skimmers keeping ammnonia down, yes, they can by removing some of the waste from your water before it is broken down into ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. They do not, however, remove ammonia per se from the water.

In regards to the Ammonia Alert, the purpose of one of these is to quickly see if you have ammonia in your tank. Since you know you have ammonia, I would expend the effort to check it with a test kit as opposed to watching the Ammonia Alert.

It (fortunately) sounds like your live rock is cycled, having been taken out of a friend's tank. However, if it was kept out of water for any significant length of time, some die-off would occur.

+1 on having a quarantine tank. You worked hard to get your tank set up. No use messing it up by potentially introducing a disease causing organism to your DT.

Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps a little.

 

[Percula9]

Letting a tank run for a couple of weeks with live rock and sand doesn't mean it's cycled. You need either some small fish like damsels or you can use a piece of shrimp. This causes ammonia to build up and nitrifying bacteria to grow and metabolize it into nitrite and then nitrate. Even though you had bacteria in the tank, you didn't have enough to handle a puffer. Once the puffer started to produce waste there wasn't enough bacteria to convert the ammonia fast enough to nitrate. There are levels of cycling.

 

[stangd1909]

Huh. Sounds like it is time to look for a new LFS to replace the two who seem to be selling you a bill of goods. You should have been advised to get a CUC before introducing your first fish and a Star and Stripe Puffer is not exactly a good fish for a newly cycled tank. Although theoretically omnivorous, it leans more toward carnivore than herbivore. This can worsen your ammonia problem.

As an aside, there are several things to learn from your LFS interaction. First, I never trust a fish store to tell me when my tank is "ready" for fish. They are in the business of selling fish, so they have an incentive to tell you your tank is ready when it may not be. Second, I would not take any advice from a fish seller who doesn't know the difference between a dog face and a star and stripe puffer. My teenage daughter saw a dog face in an aquarium at the LFS and said, "Hey, that fish has a face that looks like a dog's!" Your LFS should be able to tell. Finally, this shows the importance of doing your own research on a potential fish purchase. A reputable store will let you put down a deposit on a fish, holding it for you while you go home and do as much research as you can on that species.

As for skimmers keeping ammnonia down, yes, they can by removing some of the waste from your water before it is broken down into ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. They do not, however, remove ammonia per se from the water.

In regards to the Ammonia Alert, the purpose of one of these is to quickly see if you have ammonia in your tank. Since you know you have ammonia, I would expend the effort to check it with a test kit as opposed to watching the Ammonia Alert.

It (fortunately) sounds like your live rock is cycled, having been taken out of a friend's tank. However, if it was kept out of water for any significant length of time, some die-off would occur.

+1 on having a quarantine tank. You worked hard to get your tank set up. No use messing it up by potentially introducing a disease causing organism to your DT.

Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps a little.

Thanks for the response. I was going to get the Ammonia Alert and throw it in the sump for future use. I was oringnaly not going to the LFS to buy a puffer. I was going to get a eel or Lion fish. When I saw the puffer I thought he was really cool.

After talking with the LFS and trusting them (to which I learned my leson) I decided to get him. It's funny they sold me the stars and stripe, but said not to get a chocolate chip star fish.

The live rock was only out of the tank for a couple of hours (for transport). I am going to add another 40 LBS though. I just ordered my skimmer tonight, and will be looking for a QT tank really soon.


Again thanks for the response.

 

[stangd1909]

Letting a tank run for a couple of weeks with live rock and sand doesn't mean it's cycled. You need either some small fish like damsels or you can use a piece of shrimp. This causes ammonia to build up and nitrifying bacteria to grow and metabolize it into nitrite and then nitrate. Even though you had bacteria in the tank, you didn't have enough to handle a puffer. Once the puffer started to produce waste there wasn't enough bacteria to convert the ammonia fast enough to nitrate. There are levels of cycling.

Thanks, I understand. So it seems the tank is finishing the cycle now. The levels are at zero now. I will be doing a water change tomorrow, any thing else I can do? It seem to be under control, but I guess I will see.

 

[Rocdoc]

Well, the "good" news is that your tank wouldn't have been ready to handle the eel or the lion either, so it's a wash with the puffer .

It sounds like your ammonia level is coming down. That's good. However, it IS NOT a green light to get more fish. Let things settle for several weeks. You got lucky with this fish, but adding more stress to the system now would be decidedly bad.

FWIW, I don't like the idea of cycling a tank with damsels per Percula9's recommendation. Damsels are pugnacious little buggers and are very territorial. The old school method of cycling a tank was to put damsels in it because they are very hardy. These fish suffered through the cycle and if they survived, they were often disposed of for more "desirable" fish. I agree that starting with a small fish is good, but make sure it's one you want to keep. There are no "disposable" saltwater fish IMO.

I agree with the water change tomorrow. Keep a close eye on your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. It also wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on the puffer too, since numbers are just numbers and the appearance of your fish can tell you quite a bit.

If everything is stable, I would get going on setting up a QT (do a search on this site) and start researching your next fish purchase. It certainly wouldn't hurt to come up with a stocking list and make sure that you are putting compatible species together. Try to resist any more temptation to impulse buy.

Good luck.

 

[stangd1909]

Yup, no more impulse buying here LOL. I go on vacation the 10th of March for 3 days, I don't plan on getting any other fish until I get back. I pretty sure the next fish I get is going to be a Snow Flake eel.

The puffer seems to be doing good. He is always swimming around, and follows my every move lol. The QT is next on the agenda. I have already started searching craigslist.


And thanks again.

 

[Percula9]

In the old days we did cycle with damsels. I also said a piece of shrimp in my post. In the school aquarium lab we use to cycle with pure ammonium chloride. You see as you add live stock, the bio filter has to adjust to handle the new load. This is why you add one thing at a time and let your system adjust to accommodate the new load. Adding more live rock is a good idea. I also suggest getting an API master test kit and do the tests your self. You should also look up some information on the nitrification cycle.

 

[stangd1909]

In the old days we did cycle with damsels. I also said a piece of shrimp in my post. In the school aquarium lab we use to cycle with pure ammonium chloride. You see as you add live stock, the bio filter has to adjust to handle the new load. This is why you add one thing at a time and let your system adjust to accommodate the new load. Adding more live rock is a good idea. I also suggest getting an API master test kit and do the tests your self. You should also look up some information on the nitrification cycle.

I bought my test kit a couple of days ago. I tested my water an hour ago and the numbers were,

PH-8.2
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-between 10-20


I am going to add 30-40 LBS more of LR.

 

[duncantse]

Make sure to cycle it in a different bucket. The die off might cause another mini cycle.