Amyloodnium or something else. I.D. and questions.

[JPMagyar]

So I have long been one who did not quarantine as I felt my tank was clean, large, and stress free. Apparently the recent redo and the addition of a Regal Tang has now taught me an important lesson that the price of failing to quarantine can be high.

First question for Snorvich or other experts can the picture confirm Velvet Disease. I have lost 5 fish in the last 2 weeks: a kole tang, flame angel, regal angel, diamond head goby, and a clown fish. The first was the Kole tang about 10 days ago. Initially they scratch then they hide, breath hard, stop eating, and ultimately they die. The time from initial symptoms to death seems to be about 1-2 weeks. The first picture makes me think Amyloodinium, but is the second picture related or something totally different?

Lastly, does this impact corals? If I lose all the fish and leave the tank fish free a couple of months can I safely reintroduce fish or is this tank finished.

Thanks to one and all for any help.

 

[HumbleFish]

The gold colored dots on the YT makes me think Velvet. And losing that many fish in such a short span supports it being Velvet. But even if I'm wrong, copper treats both Ich & Velvet.

All remaining fish need to QT'd and treated ASAP. Use Cupramine and leave the DT fallow for 12 weeks. The thing on the Chromis may just be a cut or the beginnings of Uronema. Either way, all fish need copper treatment ASAP for the best chance of survival.

Fish diseases have no impact on corals/inverts. Other than to inadvertently transfer the disease to another tank.

 

[Mrscribbled]

The gold colored dots on the YT makes me think Velvet. And losing that many fish in such a short span supports it being Velvet. But even if I'm wrong, copper treats both Ich & Velvet.

All remaining fish need to QT'd and treated ASAP. Use Cupramine and leave the DT fallow for 12 weeks. The thing on the Chromis may just be a cut or the beginnings of Uronema. Either way, all fish need copper treatment ASAP for the best chance of survival.

Fish diseases have no impact on corals/inverts. Other than to inadvertently transfer the disease to another tank.

+1 the yellow tangs cloudy eye also suggests bacterial infection or flukes also.

 

[slapshot]

The gold colored dots on the YT makes me think Velvet. And losing that many fish in such a short span supports it being Velvet. But even if I'm wrong, copper treats both Ich & Velvet.

All remaining fish need to QT'd and treated ASAP. Use Cupramine and leave the DT fallow for 12 weeks. The thing on the Chromis may just be a cut or the beginnings of Uronema. Either way, all fish need copper treatment ASAP for the best chance of survival.

Fish diseases have no impact on corals/inverts. Other than to inadvertently transfer the disease to another tank.

Unfortunately, right on. Get the fish into a copper treated tank immediately. You have 24 to 48 hours before death.

 

[snorvich]

Unfortunately, right on. Get the fish into a copper treated tank immediately. You have 24 to 48 hours before death.

Velvet. As indicated above, the time line is short. Even with treatment, the success rate will not be 100%. Fallow period for velvet is fine at 8 weeks. Nothing wet must leave that tank and be shared with another tank, however as the water is "contagious".

 

[JPMagyar]

Well, it appears I had a less than tragic end to my story. I lost 5 fish out of 40 including the yellow tang who was my oldest fish, but I have had no further losses for the last 2 weeks. I had about a half dozen issues all hit at the same time including dinoflagellates, red bugs, a failed temperature controller, the loss of all my skunk cleaner shrimp, and the stress of my most recent re-aquascaping in which I took everything out and put it all back in a single day.

Tragically it was all my oldest fish that were 10 years old or more that I lost. I realize it's still a little early, but so far I've got my fingers crossed that what I got hit with was just a short lived round of Ich and not the dreaded Velvet disease. We'll see. For others following along all I did was increase my water changes, work to keep the fish well fed, added skunk cleaner shrimp, and kept the tank pristine clean, but like I said only time will tell . . .

Thanks for all the info and advice!

 

[snorvich]

By the way, cleaner shrimp have no impact on velvet or other parasites. For your sake I hope you are done losing fish, but I am not optimistic.

 

[JPMagyar]

By the way, cleaner shrimp have no impact on velvet or other parasites.

Lysmata amboinensis, the northern cleaner shrimp, scarlet cleaner shrimp, skunk cleaner shrimp or Pacific cleaner shrimp, is an omnivorous shrimp species, which will generally scavenge and eat parasites and dead tissue.

Well, I'm afraid I disagree with your belief that cleaner shrimp do nothing. I agree they are of no benefit in an outbreak of Velvet Disease, but in general I think they are helpful in keeping a population of captive fish free from external parasites. In my reef, they immediately setup cleaning stations and many if not all the fish will frequent them many times a day. I'm sure you have seen many photos of this behaviour.



Day 17 since the last loss and no fish showing any signs of illness. The Chromis appears to have healed and must have had a battle scar from fighting rather than a parasitic infection. I'll keep everyone posted in the coming weeks 'cuz I'm sure folks are curious.

 

[snorvich]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. While cleaner fish and cleaner shrimp eat certain types of parasites (as documented by assaying the contents of their stomach), they do not eat and cannot touch cryptocaryon irritans which is below the skin.

 

[Rea17]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. While cleaner fish and cleaner shrimp eat certain types of parasites (as documented by assaying the contents of their stomach), they do not eat and cannot touch cryptocaryon irritans which is below the skin.

+1, ich is embedded too deep to be reached by cleaner shrimp and fish. Fish will seek out cleanings even if the shrimp isn't actually helping, and a lot of what we witness here is the cleaner feeding off of the mucous on the sick fish. In the case of ich, this can do more harm than good.

 

[JPMagyar]

OK. So here we are on December 28th, over a month from my initial post, and I have not lost any additional fish. My point in this thread is that I feel I inflicted stress on my system with the massive re-aquascaping and failure of my Ranco temperature controller which resulted in large temperature swings, but once I got that under control and provided a stable environment once again the losses stopped. This is anecdotal and wholly unscientific, but I believe absolutely that a tank of sufficient size and a stable environment is a large part of the battle with regards to keeping fish healthy. I have just added a Kole Tang, Yellow Tang, and a Flame Angel today and I will post some pictures in a month or so to show the success or lack there of. Lastly, I am not a biologist so I can not speak with any authority what so ever, but if cleaner shrimp are part of the ecosystem in the wild they must do some part in keeping fish healthy, and if you can recreate this relationship in captivity then would you not do so?

 

[GroktheCube]

The shrimp generally eat relatively large ectoparasites.

I've seen them pull worms and flukes off of fish, but they don't do anything for unicellular parasites like ich and velvet.

Keeping a stress free tank is definitely important! One of the major advantages to proper QT/Treatment is that if/when a stressor beyond your ability to control appears, you are MUCH less likely to lose fish.

 

[HumbleFish]

I've seen cleaner shrimp eat Lympho off of fish. Although sometimes the fish is worse for wear after the cleaning is done.

 

[JPMagyar]

Update . . .

Added new fish back in and everyone seems to be ok. No scratching. No deaths.