An uncycled qt and emergencies: perfectly safe and works if...

[Sk8r]

...you keep the filter clean and test daily or twice daily.
An uncycled qt should be totally bare of everything but water and maybe a pvc elbow to let the fish feel there's cover. It's just saltwater. In fact, because you test them daily and possibly more often, they're safer than a cycled qt that's gotten a little toward the edge. You need a floss filter you can check daily for stain of any kind, and just keep that filter scrupulously clean and don't overfeed---what you're doing is making sure that tank DOESN"T cycle. You must not run carbon while using copper or antibiotics, but it's a good thing to run if just in for observation.

An uncycled qt can be an old salt bucket you can bring to spot on water conditions and hold there. An uncycled qt can be packed in the closet stuffed with spare laundry until needed, and set up with 10 minutes if you have water to use---use NEW water, not tank water---and it's as warm as the tank. It doesn't MATTER that it's not ro/di: you can use tap water and some from the hot water tap as a basis for the salt water to get a jump on the heating situation: just use water conditioner [I use Prime] to get rid of the chlorine ---but make sure the salt mixes thoroughly (use a strong mixing pump until that water is crystal clear)---unmixed salt can burn your fish's gills terribly.

An ATO on that tank is a Very Good Idea. That keeps the salinity spot-on 24/7: absolutely critical with meds to know that evaporation isn't concentrating them above safety, or that adding water isn't diluting them: you can lose a fish on that issue.

A jump shield is a must.
A heater is. A thermometer is.
A light is optional.
Dirt is the enemy in this set-up: no rock, no sand, no 'used sponge', and no stain on the floss---if it stains, toss it and install new clean floss, nothing remotely resembling it.

 

[Sk8r]

Making an emergency 'pot' filter:
A small container, like they sell CDs in bulk in.
Floss. [Carbon too if you're only observing, not treating!]
a weight of some kind. A piece of rubble or even a piece of glassware from the kitchen.
A pump, at least a Maxijet 400.
piece of screen or eggcrate grid
Hose.
Put the pump in the bottom of the 'pot', put a screen or eggcrate atop it, put floss atop that, maybe another piece of eggcrate screen and weight the top to be sure your floss stays in the bucket, and run the outlet hose from the pump up to the surface, where it can become a very controlled little fountain pouring back into the tank from a slight height and help aerate. [Adding an airpump bubbler is not a bad idea. Aeration failure kills fish. You need a real solid aeration.]
Change that floss every time it stains and feed SPARSELY---the fish in qt is not doing athletics. Loose decaying food is dangerous to him.

YOur object is to PREVENT a cycle. Do not let bio-activity start. Got it?

 

[Sk8r]

For cheap floss? Pillow-stuffing [poly] from the fabric store works real well. Use, toss, get new, use, toss. Wrap it around a teaspoon of carbon if not treating---works like a charm.

 

[HWDylan]

I use to run an air stone in my QT but gave up because the bubbles popping at the surface spray salt EVERYWHERE.

Any good fix for that? I do like running an air stone I just hate wiping salt off of everything around the tank.

 

[JonV88]

What are ways to prevent a cycle besides water changes?? I'm guessing u get signs of ammonia water change because I've tried ammonia removers and the reduce my oxygen not good

 

[dkeller_nc]

I use to run an air stone in my QT but gave up because the bubbles popping at the surface spray salt EVERYWHERE.

Any good fix for that? I do like running an air stone I just hate wiping salt off of everything around the tank.

Yeah. Buy an inexpensive, "nano" propeller pump like the Hydor Koralia 240. Place it in the tank or other container so that it's close to the surface, and pointed at the surface so that it agitates it. Folks don't always realize this, but gas exchange with the atmosphere at fish-tank temperatures is extremely rapid if the container is only mildly agitated. Equalization/saturation with oxygen occurs within 10-20 seconds at most in a 10 gallon tank.

An alternative that fulfills both the requirement to agitate the surface to provide gas exchange and to filter uneaten food is a Hagen Aquaclear 20. They're about $25. They are easily the best mechanical filter ever designed, but it's not as satisfying as making your own as sK8r suggests.

 

[Sk8r]

For an airstone, just put a little piece of glass or a flat piece of ceramic of some sort on that end of the tank and confine the airstone behind a small screen of eggcrate. It'll still pop bubbles, but it'll all drip back into the tank. Don't glass the whole top. The Koralia is a better idea but pricier.

 

[Sk8r]

The principle behind all this is very simple: fish can live quite happily in warm clean saltwater. Your mission is to keep it warm and clean and stably-salty. And aerated!

 

[jgalen0025]

Can you take water change water and dt live rock and have an instant qttank for new arrivals and dt fish for copper treatment? Sounds fairly simple and easy

 

[degibson84]

Yes. That's what I did. Just make sure to not put the live rock back in the DT. If any disease you are transferring to your DT.

 

[Sk8r]

Bare tank. No used water, no rock. Pvc elbow. If you use water that's from your tank, you're importing bacteria which are actually a problem that can bring on a cycle...which is what you don't want.

Now, if you WANT a cycled qt, that's cool, but be careful trying to put a fish in it until you're sure it's stable, and that takes planning. You risk exposure to ammonia if the thing is not balanced and running like a mature tank---if it gets too much biomass in its craw and starts to cycle on you, that's a problem. What I'm talking about in this thread is an uncycled, clean-water, no-rock tank.

Some fish (dragonets/mandys) are best NOT quarantined unless you can supply pods: happily they almost never have parasites, having a very, very thick slime coat. If healthy, they're that way. You take your risk putting them on in; or you set up a dragonet qt so they have a mass of pod-laden cheato and you prepare to spend money to supply them with pods if they eat everything up. Their appetites are epic. You analyze your risk---and do what makes sense to you.


Some fish (angels) that are rock-feeders ARE extremely ich-prone and need qt. In those cases, use a cycled qt so they can have their rock and stay healthy.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion.

 

[JonV88]

An uncycled qt and emergencies: perfectly safe and works if...

Yes. That's what I did. Just make sure to not put the live rock back in the DT. If any disease you are transferring to your DT.

So what do I do with LR after QT is taken down??

 

[JonV88]

Bare tank. No used water, no rock. Pvc elbow. If you use water that's from your tank, you're importing bacteria which are actually a problem that can bring on a cycle...which is what you don't want.

Now, if you WANT a cycled qt, that's cool, but be careful trying to put a fish in it until you're sure it's stable, and that takes planning. You risk exposure to ammonia if the thing is not balanced and running like a mature tank---if it gets too much biomass in its craw and starts to cycle on you, that's a problem. What I'm talking about in this thread is an uncycled, clean-water, no-rock tank.

Some fish (dragonets/mandys) are best NOT quarantined unless you can supply pods: happily they almost never have parasites, having a very, very thick slime coat. If healthy, they're that way. You take your risk putting them on in; or you set up a dragonet qt so they have a mass of pod-laden cheato and you prepare to spend money to supply them with pods if they eat everything up. Their appetites are epic. You analyze your risk---and do what makes sense to you.


Some fish (angels) that are rock-feeders ARE extremely ich-prone and need qt. In those cases, use a cycled qt so they can have their rock and stay healthy.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion.

Sorry I'm a newB but how exactly do I keep my QT from cycling??

From Sk8r: YOU CLEAN YOUR FILTER: CHANGE THE FLOSS EVERY TIME YOU SEE IT STAIN: the stain is bacteria. Without bacteria there is no cycle.

 

[Sk8r]

Don't put live rock or sand into a qt. It becomes a host for ich if ich is present. If you have to treat, it's ruined for use and you have to throw it out or put it through an elaborate and somewhat expensive recovery process involving Polyfilter.

If you are qt'ing an angel or rock-grazer that WILL not eat other food, you will have to risk some rock.

Otherwise, just don't put anything in that qt tank. Bare glass. One pvc elbow.

 

[mkoop]

Great information in this thread, please sticky or incorporate into front page of established QT sticky.

 

[JonV88]

An uncycled qt and emergencies: perfectly safe and works if...

So in this case with one fish in a 10 gal QT how long should it take for ammonia to rise, and I'm guessing just do a water change when It begins to show

 

[shermanator]

First thanks for this thread, it makes much more sense now.

I have the same question as Jon above and I will add one: what percent water needs to be changed once you can detect ammonia?

And one more: is an uncycled QT also the way to go for observing new fish?

 

[Fish_King_25]

Don't put live rock or sand into a qt. It becomes a host for ich if ich is present. If you have to treat, it's ruined for use and you have to throw it out or put it through an elaborate and somewhat expensive recovery process involving Polyfilter.

If you are qt'ing an angel or rock-grazer that WILL not eat other food, you will have to risk some rock.

Otherwise, just don't put anything in that qt tank. Bare glass. One pvc elbow.

Sk8r,

I've been following your incredibly informative posts for what seems like years on here..I sadly admit I've never had a QT tank before :/ I picked up a 10g and will be QTing my next fish as I feel very comfortable setting one up properly..

I was wondering if you could possibly add your insight with the actual quarantine process you follow (or advise us to follow) now that you be outlined the setup piece of it. Some kind of time frame, when to start prazi, cup, etc. Kind of like a regimen for us new to this to follow. I feel like I could set up a tank no problem, but I don't really know what meds to buy to have on hand just in case, when or of I should medicate everything, or just observe then treat if necessary, etc. What's a good process to follow??

 

[Fish_King_25]

Don't put live rock or sand into a qt. It becomes a host for ich if ich is present. If you have to treat, it's ruined for use and you have to throw it out or put it through an elaborate and somewhat expensive recovery process involving Polyfilter.

If you are qt'ing an angel or rock-grazer that WILL not eat other food, you will have to risk some rock.

Otherwise, just don't put anything in that qt tank. Bare glass. One pvc elbow.

Anything on this?

 

[Sk8r]

I don't believe in meds until and if you know the fish has a problem, and what problem it has: not all meds are benign: copper isn't; and if you guess wrong, you've got to back the fish off one treatment and start another that isn't compatible with the last one...

So what I advise is pure water for 4 weeks gradually bringing salinity up to the dt level (if it was hypo to start)---and giving the CUC those 4 weeks to bring the newly-cycled sandbed up to snuff, simply by eating and poo'ing and living. If that tank won't support snails, you surely don't want to put a fish into it. The qt should be a comfy r&r for the fish in which all changes are slow and he can eat without being challenged or pushed.