Angel Experiences - help me hedge my bets!

[psimitry]

So my tank is pretty devoid of fish.

I have two clownfish for my entire 50G tank.

Some may think this is a good thing, and in truth, it may be closer to a natural environment. The problem is... well it's kinda boring.

I plan on adding a lawnmover blenny here shortly to hopefully mop up the small hair algae infestation in my tank (now that I have it under control that is - it's amazing what happens when you stop feeding flake food), but I want an Angel fish.

Specifically, I want a pygmy angel fish. The problem is that they are not known to be reef safe for polyped creatures such as zoanthids. I had an elibi (I hope I spelled that right) angel at one point for about three days in which I noticed my zoanthid colonies shrinking. I decided to remove it when I saw it peck at one of the zoos themselves.

The prevailing theory seems to be that there are no "polyp-safe" Angels, but I know some people have beat those odds. A friend of mine, for example has had a potter's angel for a while and seems to be doing very well.

SO - help me hedge my bets. Which angel species is LIKELY to be the least destructive on my corals that I currently have in tank?

 

[psimitry]

Bump for the day crew?

 

[ct_vol]

There are a few "reef safe" angels, most of them are of the Genicanthus variety... However the Pygmy Cherub Angel - Centropyge argi is not supposedly one of them... It is true that there are exceptions to every rule and every individual is different...

I've had success keeping my Multicolor Angel - Centropyge Multicolor in my reef tank with no problems... But I've had problems with a Singapore Angel -Chaetodontoplus mesoleucus and Lemonpeel Angel - Centropyge joculator with nipping at polyps and clams... I also have a Flame Angel - Centropyge loriculus in another reeftank with no problems...

A 50g tank isn't much space for an angel, so you'll have to stick with the dwarf angels... You can roll the dice with some of the Centropyge species, because I'm not sure if I'd try a Genicanthus in a tank that small... They feed primarily on zooplankton out of the water column, and they get a little bigger than the "dwarf" angels...

Hope this helps, sorry so long...

 

[3mm3]

I have had a coral beauty in my tank for almost 4 months and have only had one small prob. I did see him nip at a star pollup once. Didn't hurt it though.

 

[TrojanScott]

Have had two coral beauty's over the years, never had an issue. Pretty fish too.

 

[papagimp]

My Coral Beauty has been in my 55g for 6 months or more now, and I've never seen him attempt to eat any polyps or any corals for that matter. I feed him lot's of spirulina flakes, all purpose flakes, and Nutrafin max slow sinking morsels, frozen brine, mysis, misc frozen cubes. I think my successs is due in part to my feeding him so much and often, he probably couldn't squeeze in any polyps. See if your LFS would be willing to let you trade one back for something else if it tries to eat the corals. Worse they can do is say "no".

 

[kjbudsberg]

Coral beauties are my bet too. Mine has been with me (the tank contains exclusively sofites-zooanthids, kenya tree, green star polyps) for over a year without any problems. It seems to be common that they do not eat anything for the first several days, but once they settle in, they do very well with a varied diet. As with most marine critters, they are individuals, and if an individual is disposed to pick at sofites, they do it from the start.

-my $0.02

 

[psimitry]

Well I think I've got a plan.

Based on your suggestions, I think I'm going to try a coral beauty angel. But I clearly don't want to risk any of my more precious zoos.

So I'll risk some of my less precious zoos in a contained setting

I figure I've gotta quarantine this fish anyway since.. well I quarantine EVERYTHING now (darned Zoanthid eating nudibranch infestation), so what I can do is take one of my medium size rocks that have my more common zoos and drop that into my quarantine tank.

I know exactly how many zoo polyps are on this rock, so if I see any disappearing, I can return said fish for... sadly a 50% loss on initial price of the fish.

BUT. There are a couple upsides to this. Firstly (and most importantly) I can be reasonably assured that this fish will not eat zoo polyps before introducing it to my tank. Second, it'll be quarantined properly. Thirdly, if it DOES eat polyps, I can more easily remove a pest fish from a quarantine tank than I can my main tank.

The fact that I've got a stalk of xenia growing in the tank can't hurt either (making sure that it won't munch on that...).

Thoughts?

 

[csb]

I've had a coral beauty in my reef for about a year now. Love that little fish! It's well mannered, and seemingly intelligent, and is very healthy with brilliant deep purple color. It has never touched a coral in my tank! The fish grazes on the rocks and glass for algae constantly, and sometimes it grazes *around* a coral, which some people may mistake as actually eating it.

My advice would be to NOT put any zoas in the quarantine with the fish. It may take your new angel a few days to figure out what "food" really is ... and you want it to eat the stuff you put in the tank. I'm afraid that if you put zoas in the quarantine, it'll learn that as food and you'll never be able to reverse that behavior.

I think that you should concentrate on feeding for a few days to allow it time to learn about your food and it's new diet before introducing it to the main tank.

I feed mine twice a day ... once in the AM and again in the evening. Varied diet... Formula 2, some flake, cyclopeze, frozen angel food (sponge, etc.), brine shrimp. Just a little bit of something at each feeding. Even though my tank is pretty clean, the angel still manages to get some algae in it's diet too through grazing. I think the multiple small feedings keep it from getting too hungry, and therefore, it doesn't even really think of eating any corals for dinner.

 

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8248538#post8248538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by csb
My advice would be to NOT put any zoas in the quarantine with the fish. It may take your new angel a few days to figure out what "food" really is ... and you want it to eat the stuff you put in the tank. I'm afraid that if you put zoas in the quarantine, it'll learn that as food and you'll never be able to reverse that behavior.

That's a very good point. Anyone else have any opinions on the matter?

That's something else I'll have to consider...

 

[kjbudsberg]

Well, it seems like a good idea, logically, but I haven't heard any evidence to support it (that is NOT saying that it doesn't exist). With that in mind, maybe keep the fish in QT alone until eating well, then all some zoos? I do agree with csb that keeping them well-fed is probably important to keeping them out of mischief.

I didn't understand from your original post that you had rare zoos, so this may be a good approach as insurance. Mine are all very common, so I wouldn't be upset is some disappeared, but I can certainly understand your reluctance to dump the fish in and hope for the best.

 

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8249356#post8249356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kjbudsberg
I didn't understand from your original post that you had rare zoos, so this may be a good approach as insurance.

They're not especially rare as in $25 a polyp or anything, but they are pretty and quite slow growing (as opposed to some of my other zoos that multiply like rabbits). Either way, I'd hate to lose them (especially since I went through all the trouble to eradicate the aforemention nudibranchs)

 

[Donkin]

I had a mated pair of pygmys in my 110. They never ever attacked any of my zoos or my clams for that matter. I really think that its the individual and how often you feed. I fed em 2x a day with some reef prime flakes soaked in selcon. They never hurt anything but some algea . I also had a coral bueaty and a flame angel in the tank that never touched anything as well. I know it was a little heavey on angels but they never bothered each other or any coral/clam for that matter.

 

[stereomandan]

I think the whole thing of pygmy angels being NOT reef safe is overrated. There are VERY, VERY few posts about pygmy angels nipping at corals when you consider how many people have them.

BTW, my flame angel hasn't nipped any of my corals for 3-4 years.

Dan

 

[affan]

My coral beauty has been with me for a little over 8 months now in a pretty heavily stocked mixed reef. She's always been a model citizen, and is one of the more active players in the tank. Beautiful fish, great personality, and with excellent dietary practices, a great addition to any reef. FWIW.

Here she is.

 

[psimitry]

Good to know. Thanks everyone for info (and please feel free to continue posting in this thread as I'm pretty inexperienced to angel fish).

It seriously broke my heart when I had to take the Elibi angel back that I had earlier. It was one of the better looking specimens I've ever seen and I REALLY was wishing that I had a FOWLR tank that I could put it in. Sadly, that was not the case.

We'll see what happens though, since I just got done acclimating my new coral beauty angel!

 

[Peter Eichler]

In my experience the first thing Centropyge angels will go for are brain type corals (blastos, acans, lobos, etc etc). It's hit or miss with every single one of them no matter what someone says. I had a Argi in one tank for a couple years and one day out of the blue started pestering corals. There was no explaining why, it just happened. He didn't kill anything, but main'y kept several of my LPS from opening. I had to put the corals he was bothering in another reef or they most likely would have died eventually.

Goodluck!

 

[Angel*Fish]

The CB is an excellent choice IMO and your idea of placing corals in the quarantine is a good one. Wait until he's eating other foods well and there should be plenty of coral-less LR in there too.

Sometimes an angel will sample something but then later ignore it. So keep that in mind And for most angels, as mentioned above, the real test is a brain or similar coral!

According to a brief snippet I read somewhere, the "well-fed is less likely to sample coral" rule should apply to CB's.

 

[Kalied20]

I did a lot of research on Angels about a 6 months ago looking for a reef safe one. I did find one - the Japanese Swallowtail. I have a Female in a 24 gallon that is going into a 90 gallon next week. I don't know if a 50 gallon is big enough considering they are swimmers. But very nice fish.