Angelfish not eating

[ThRoewer]

5 months of copper could have caused liver failure.
Though the coincidence of going into a non medicated tank and then dying within a few days rather points to something that was suppressed by the copper and then flared up quickly after the copper was gone. Velvet or one of the other protozoan parasites fit that bill best.

The fish looking bloated after death is nothing unusual. Like almost all other higher organisms, fish have bacteria in their guts that aid their digestion (another reason why prophylactic antibiotics may do more harm than good). These bacteria continue to work after the fish's death and the gases they prodice cause the belly to look bloated.

As for treating with CP in the DT proactively - I would advise against it unless you have clear indicators or suspicion. But even in that case it may cause too many side effects due to the long exposure time required in the DT. Any treatment is best administered in a dedicated QT/HT.
In a QT I use it proactively on suspicious fish (mail order or if other fish in a dealer system showed symptoms), but only for two weeks (dosed at the time the fish go in). After that the fish get transferred into another QT for an 8 week observation period.

My recommendation would be to set up an appropriately sized QT (better two) and be ready in case you see any of the other fish showing similar symptoms. But for now I would just observe.
Next time you should put all new fish in that QT for a minimum of 8 weeks.

 

[Shark.Bait]

5 months of copper could have caused liver failure.
Though the coincidence of going into a non medicated tank and then dying within a few days rather points to something that was suppressed by the copper and then flared up quickly after the copper was gone. Velvet or one of the other protozoan parasites fit that bill best.

The fish looking bloated after death is nothing unusual. Like almost all other higher organisms, fish have bacteria in their guts that aid their digestion (another reason why prophylactic antibiotics may do more harm than good). These bacteria continue to work after the fish's death and the gases they prodice cause the belly to look bloated.

As for treating with CP in the DT proactively - I would advise against it unless you have clear indicators or suspicion. But even in that case it may cause too many side effects due to the long exposure time required in the DT. Any treatment is best administered in a dedicated QT/HT.
In a QT I use it proactively on suspicious fish (mail order or if other fish in a dealer system showed symptoms), but only for two weeks (dosed at the time the fish go in). After that the fish get transferred into another QT for an 8 week observation period.

My recommendation would be to set up an appropriately sized QT (better two) and be ready in case you see any of the other fish showing similar symptoms. But for now I would just observe.
Next time you should put all new fish in that QT for a minimum of 8 weeks.

Great, thank you for he help. The CP thread is a bit tough to follow. After 40+ pages, general opinions on the treatment seem to flip flop.

 

[ThRoewer]

Most CP failures/deaths occur with DT treatments due to the long treatment period that is required: 6 to 11 weeks depending on what you treat. That's why I would advocate against this. In a QT you can cut the treatment down to two weeks if you start with a sterile QT and transfer the fish to another parasite free QT after that time.

 

[Shark.Bait]

Most CP failures/deaths occur with DT treatments due to the long treatment period that is required: 6 to 11 weeks depending on what you treat. That's why I would advocate against this. In a QT you can cut the treatment down to two weeks if you start with a sterile QT and transfer the fish to another parasite free QT after that time.

I was under the impression that the time frame was 21-30 days for both QT and DT, and that the dosages changed between each tank. What would the respective dosing regimens be for the QT vs DT?

I've been researching CP usage and many users seem to have success even with live rock in their tank. I mainly say this because alprazo ran all of his tests with LR and sand in his tanks. I will treat new fish with CP in the QT, but I'm interested in running a preventative dose in my DT due to the having velvet in the system and not being able to catch the fish without tearing the tank apart. I don't mean to argue against your opinion, just looking for clarification. Thanks again for the help!

 

[ThRoewer]

The issue are the encysted or otherwise off fish stages you will always have in an infested tank. Cysts are often too protected by their shell to be affected by the medication.
That's why you should set up the hospital tank fresh with sterilized equipment, add CP and then add the fish. This way all ripe parasites that come off the fish are killed and no new parasites can come up. To be sure set up another clean HT, medicate it and transfer the fish into that one after a week.
After another week you transfer the fish into another clean quarantine tank where they remain for the remainder of the quarantine period (or fallow period of the DT).
This works for Ich and Velvet, possibly also for Brook.

As for live rock - there have also been certified observations where CP became inactive due to bacteria activity.
Also many of the reported losses were during treatments in DTs.
Plus you never know what kind of time bombs you plant with medicating the DT, at the least the next time you may need to treat the medication may not be effective anymore.
That's why I would strongly advocate against treating the DT and only do it under controllable conditions in a HT.

The only case where a treatment of the DT makes sense is when you are dealing with Uronema, as that one is opportunistic and can not be eradicated by even the longest fallow period.
Though even in this case I would treat fish and (the then fishless) tank separately.

 

[Shark.Bait]

The issue are the encysted or otherwise off fish stages you will always have in an infested tank. Cysts are often too protected by their shell to be affected by the medication.
That's why you should set up the hospital tank fresh with sterilized equipment, add CP and then add the fish. This way all ripe parasites that come off the fish are killed and no new parasites can come up. To be sure set up another clean HT, medicate it and transfer the fish into that one after a week.
After another week you transfer the fish into another clean quarantine tank where they remain for the remainder of the quarantine period (or fallow period of the DT).
This works for Ich and Velvet, possibly also for Brook.

As for live rock - there have also been certified observations where CP became inactive due to bacteria activity.
Also many of the reported losses were during treatments in DTs.
Plus you never know what kind of time bombs you plant with medicating the DT, at the least the next time you may need to treat the medication may not be effective anymore.
That's why I would strongly advocate against treating the DT and only do it under controllable conditions in a HT.

The only case where a treatment of the DT makes sense is when you are dealing with Uronema, as that one is opportunistic and can not be eradicated by even the longest fallow period.
Though even in this case I would treat fish and (the then fishless) tank separately.[/QUOTE

Awesome. Thank you for the clarification.