Another boil advisory

[Airborne12B]

Somehow, sixteen years into the 21st century the powers that be have not figured out how to supply clean water to the city residents. In the two years I have lived here we've had not one, not two, not three, but four water boils. The first three times I had plenty of RODI water made to last me, but this time I had just used it all for a water changed the night before, and hadn't made more. Now I need to top-off my tank because my sump is running low, and I'm out of water. I know there is a preferable type of water to buy from the store that is reef safe, but I don't remember which. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[SeattleReefer]

the 'DI' part of RODI stands for 'distilled'

 

[disc1]

the 'DI' part of RODI stands for 'distilled'

No it doesn't. It stands for De-Ionized.

Distilled involves boiling and collecting condensate. De-ionization involves running over an ion exchange resin.

Be careful drinking from your RO system if you haven't cleaned it in a while. Some particularly nasty bugs can grow in there and make you sick.

 

[sde1500]

the 'DI' part of RODI stands for 'distilled'

swing and a miss haha. De-Ionized.

 

[Treasure Coast]

Distilled water will work fine. Some LFS sell their own RODI water. Good luck!

 

[snorvich]

No it doesn't. It stands for De-Ionized.

Distilled involves boiling and collecting condensate. De-ionization involves running over an ion exchange resin.

Be careful drinking from your RO system if you haven't cleaned it in a while. Some particularly nasty bugs can grow in there and make you sick.

This.

 

[nereefpat]

If you need water for the tank, you can still use the rodi. Any bacteria in the water will die in the saltwater.

 

[Bent]

If you need water for the tank, you can still use the rodi. Any bacteria in the water will die in the saltwater.

That's not true at all. If that was the case then the same bacteria wouldn't be able to survive in the human body considering the sodium chloride content.

 

[SeattleReefer]

the 'DI' part of RODI stands for 'distilled'

oops- I should have just written 'use distilled'... :sad2:

 

[CStrickland]

isn't bacteria fairly large? I would have thought the rodi would remove it.
I wouldn't drink out of my rodi cause I'm a slacker and haven't sanitized it in forever (contrary to manufacturers advice that you do so regularly) so stuff can grow in there after the membrane, or whichever part catches it. That'll make you sick.

But as far as whatever is in the water that they are telling you to boil it, doesn't that get removed? Or if it doesn't, should one sanitize the unit and replace the membrane, carbon, and resins after a boil water order? Like is op safe to start up again after the order is lifted, or since it stays wet and stuff can grow in there should they reset?

 

[nereefpat]

That's not true at all. If that was the case then the same bacteria wouldn't be able to survive in the human body considering the sodium chloride content.

Saltwater at 35ppt is 4x saltier than blood. RBCs would shrivel up and die in seawater as well.

E. coli won't do well in seawater. The osmotic gradient would cause the bacteria to lose all its water. There are also stressors on the cells from temp, light, pH, and lack of nutrients.

 

[Bent]

Saltwater at 35ppt is 4x saltier than blood. RBCs would shrivel up and die in seawater as well.

E. coli won't do well in seawater. The osmotic gradient would cause the bacteria to lose all its water. There are also stressors on the cells from temp, light, pH, and lack of nutrients.

Dude. E-Coli can survive a hydrocloric acid bath after being injested in the human stomach. There are bacteria out there like pseudomonas that can even live in bleach water. They have zero issue surviving in salt water.

Gram negative bacterias like E. Coli are the most common and prolific bacterias that affect the marine environment. Fish get bacterial infections all the time and those are not specialized salt water bacterias.

Osmotic gradients don't affect bacterias like they do complex organisms. There simply isn't enough internals for it to.

E.coli or any other pathogenic bacteria present in freshwater can and does infect saltwater just fine. Like I said, there aren't specialized saltwater strains of pathogens.

Edit:
Also, the human body is .9% sodium chloride (which is why bags of it are referred to as "normal" saline). The oceanic average is 3.5%. So it's closer to 2.5-3x more, not 4.

Edit 2:
Regardless of the details, I would not advise using your water during a boil advisory for anything, and that's a fact.

 

[Bent]

isn't bacteria fairly large? I would have thought the rodi would remove it.
I wouldn't drink out of my rodi cause I'm a slacker and haven't sanitized it in forever (contrary to manufacturers advice that you do so regularly) so stuff can grow in there after the membrane, or whichever part catches it. That'll make you sick.

But as far as whatever is in the water that they are telling you to boil it, doesn't that get removed? Or if it doesn't, should one sanitize the unit and replace the membrane, carbon, and resins after a boil water order? Like is op safe to start up again after the order is lifted, or since it stays wet and stuff can grow in there should they reset?

You are correct boil water advisories are concerning pathogens that might be present in the water main. Typical pathogenic bacterias and viruses can't survive temperatures greater than 165 degrees. Boiling it is a visual cue that the water has gone over that mark and is now safe to drink.

And yes, after a boil water advisory I would take the unit apart, get new cartridges, and sanitize every part that came in contact with it.

I would not screw around with hepatitis.

 

[nereefpat]

Dude. E-Coli can survive a hydrocloric acid bath after being injested in the human stomach. There are bacteria out there like pseudomonas that can even live in bleach water. They have zero issue surviving in salt water.

Gram negative bacterias like E. Coli are the most common and prolific bacterias that affect the marine environment. Fish get bacterial infections all the time and those are not specialized salt water bacterias.

Osmotic gradients don't affect bacterias like they do complex organisms. There simply isn't enough internals for it to.

E.coli or any other pathogenic bacteria present in freshwater can and does infect saltwater just fine. Like I said, there aren't specialized saltwater strains of pathogens.

Edit:
Also, the human body is .9% sodium chloride (which is why bags of it are referred to as "normal" saline). The oceanic average is 3.5%. So it's closer to 2.5-3x more, not 4.

Edit 2:
Regardless of the details, I would not advise using your water during a boil advisory for anything, and that's a fact.

Yes, E. coli does just fine in acidic environments. I've conducted fermentations with E. coli in pH of 3.0. That's not the debate.

Unless bleach is significantly diluted or expired, nothing can live in it.

I can't believe you are denying the effects of osmotic pressure on bacteria, but what can you do? Unless in nutrient rich media, E. coli will not grow in seawater.

0.9% x 4 = 3.6%. I'm not sure why that math is hard.

To the original poster: To put your mind at ease, I suppose you could boil your RODI water or buy distilled.

Yeesh

 

[Bent]

Yes, E. coli does just fine in acidic environments. I've conducted fermentations with E. coli in pH of 3.0. That's not the debate.

Unless bleach is significantly diluted or expired, nothing can live in it.

I can't believe you are denying the effects of osmotic pressure on bacteria, but what can you do? Unless in nutrient rich media, E. coli will not grow in seawater.

0.9% x 4 = 3.6%. I'm not sure why that math is hard.

To the original poster: To put your mind at ease, I suppose you could boil your RODI water or buy distilled.

Yeesh

E.coli is in the ocean and can transfer to the aquarium with no problem. Go take a crap in the toilet, collect the contents and pour it into the fish tank and tell me what happens.

And if nothing could live in bleach water, no one would present with pseudomonas infections from public swimming pools.

Don't use your water when under a boil water advisory.
Period.

I'm not arguing about this anymore.

 

[nereefpat]

E.coli is in the ocean and can transfer to the aquarium with no problem. Go take a crap in the toilet, collect the contents and pour it into the fish tank and tell me what happens.

And if nothing could live in bleach water, no one would present with pseudomonas infections from public swimming pools.

Don't use your water when under a boil water advisory.
Period.

I'm not arguing about this anymore.

Bacteria that lives in the ocean has adapted to do this. Freshwater bacteria when suddenly introduced to saltwater would have major die-off. Survival could be achieved over time, using directed evolution by slowly increasing salt content. To use an aquarium example: if you cycled a freshwater tank, than suddenly increased the salinity in the tank to seawater levels, then tried to add fish, the bacteria would no longer be there to process ammonia.

Most people wouldn't say swimming pool water is the same as bleach water. Like I said, diluted or expired. Since you brought it up, ever heard of saltwater pools ?

How about preserving food by exploiting osmotic
pressure, as in jelly (sugar) or cured meats?

 

[Bent]

Bacteria that lives in the ocean has adapted to do this. Freshwater bacteria when suddenly introduced to saltwater would have major die-off. Survival could be achieved over time, using directed evolution by slowly increasing salt content. To use an aquarium example: if you cycled a freshwater tank, than suddenly increased the salinity in the tank to seawater levels, then tried to add fish, the bacteria would no longer be there to process ammonia.

Most people wouldn't say swimming pool water is the same as bleach water. Like I said, diluted or expired. Since you brought it up, ever heard of saltwater pools ?

How about preserving food by exploiting osmotic
pressure, as in jelly (sugar) or cured meats?

Ok buddy.

 

[CStrickland]

This is interesting.

I'm thinking that if bacteria were so delicate, it would be a lot harder to set up a reef tank. People frequently start ranks with dry sand and rock, fill with salt water, add a shrimp, and wait. Within a week or so a whole biofilter establishes. That's kind of amazing if you think about all the different bacteria required: some kinds to decay organic matter, some to nitrify ammonia, some to denitrify those compounds. And these are a diverse mix too, autotrophs, heterotrophs etc.

So I think it must not be all that hard for bacteria to acclimate to diff environments if a kid in Nebraska can put water in a box so far from a marine population and within a short time his biofilter is up and running without any real help from people. It stands to reason that these are not the only bacteria that are being cultured in our tanks, just the ones we notice cause we need them. If our biofilter can populate a tank independently why not E. coli or cryptosporidium or ghiardia, for example?

 

[nereefpat]

isn't bacteria fairly large? I would have thought the rodi would remove it.
I wouldn't drink out of my rodi cause I'm a slacker and haven't sanitized it in forever (contrary to manufacturers advice that you do so regularly) so stuff can grow in there after the membrane, or whichever part catches it. That'll make you sick.

But as far as whatever is in the water that they are telling you to boil it, doesn't that get removed? Or if it doesn't, should one sanitize the unit and replace the membrane, carbon, and resins after a boil water order? Like is op safe to start up again after the order is lifted, or since it stays wet and stuff can grow in there should they reset?

Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier. This should be discussed. Bacteria cells are measured in microns, 1-10 microns specifically. Pore sizes of RO membranes are on the order of angstroms, 10 to the 4th smaller than a micron. RO companies won't necessarily recommend their membranes for removal of bacteria for CYA reasons. But if they can remove ions like Na, it is very unlikely a bacteria cell would slip through.

The likelihood bacteria would make it through RO, then sit in RODI water without lysis, then be put in seawater without shriveling up is unlikely.

 

[CStrickland]

But if they can remove ions like Na, it is very unlikely a bacteria cell would slip through.

Not sure about the rest of it, but I think that a small, charged, ion like NA+ is removed by the di resin, not the membrane.

I do agree that the rodi would probs take out the pathogen that instigated the boil order in the first place. But I'd probs sterilize it after that sort of exposure. I'm thinking about stuff like tds creep, where as the unit sits larger molecules pass the membrane, and other stuff that could happen in standing water. And the risk that having cultured in the unit, there might be a lot of pathogen next time you run it.

EDIT: lol, I just saw you're in Nebraska nereefpat, that's a funny coincidence that I said "some kid from NE" in my other post I was just trying to think of someplace really far from the ocean