Another Newbie with Problems

M

mightymany

New member
This is a long post but I'm at my wits end. Having multiple problems with tank.

Here's my set up for reference.
90g rectangular tank with corner return
Aqueon Proflex Sump Model 3 (20g?) with Bio balls
Aqueon 950 circulation pump
Heater (I think it's an Aqueon but that's all I know) Set at 73 but tank stay around 79
2 A.I Sol Blue Lights, set up since beginning. They sit on top of glass, about 6 inches above water. The top of tank is open in front of and behind the glass, to let air in and keep it from getting too hot. I have a canopy on the tank, but I just leave the lid open unless we have guests over. Again, to maintain temp in tank.
At set-up, put in 45# Live and 45# dry rock, 45# Live and 45# dry sand
No skimmer or any other equip
Tank has been up 3 months
LFS set up the tank for me, using tap water. Did one water change (25g) in early Jan, also with tap water. Since then I have done 2 water changes (20g each) with saltwater from a different LFS and only use ro/di water now for top-off. I dip tested the water before I changed it out and PH was similar to mine.

Water parameter:
Temp 78.6 - 79.2
Salinity - 1.025
ph - 8.1 (measured at LFS with Salifert test)
Nitrites - 0 (measured with Tetra dip)
Ammonia - 0 (measured with Tetra dip)
Nitrates - 15 (measured with API Reefmaster kit)
Alk - 11.1 (measured at LFS with Salifert test)
Mg - 1280 (measured at LFS)
Calcium "“ 450 (measured at LFS)
Phosphates - .1

Current livestock
2 Blue/green chromis (in since Nov)
2 Bangai Cardinals (since early Dec)
1 Rusty angel ( since Dec 21)
1 Bartlett's Anthias (since Dec 21)
3 yellow-tail damsels (since mid-Jan)
1 purple pseudochromis (since mid-Jan)
2 cleaner shrimp
2 Zebra Turbo snails
5 Margarita snails
2 Astrea snails
9 or so Red leg hermits

Open Brain
Favites brain
Curvata trumpet coral
green mushroom
assorted mushroom rock
hairy mushroom
cauliflower Cladiella coral
green starry polyp
orange ricordia
small yellow polyp colony
button zoa (currently dying)

I feed the fish twice a day. First feeding in the afternoon is a pinch of F1 flakes. Second feeding is in the evening "“ one cube of frozen Mysis or Spirulina. Every couple days I put a small piece of seaweed on the clip for the angel. I also drop a few pellets for the crabs every couple of days. I also have cubes of Cyclops to rotate with the shrimp but the fish do not eat it. Are they supposed to? The LFS said they would love it"¦..

Here are the problems:
1. Bright green algae - started getting worse when I extended the light hours and intensity when I added the corals. It's not slimy or hairy. Won't rub off. It does have pink and purple coraline flecks in it. Very noticeable when lights are off and it's just natural light, but not nearly as much when lights are on (probably due to the blues in the lights). Do I just wait it out or is there something else I should do? I know it will be tough with the nitrates and phosphates the way they are.

2. There are 3-5 fish flashing - the anthias, purple pseudochromis, rusty angel and 1 or 2 yellow tail damsels (can't tell number for certain). No spots, no cloudy eyes, all eating great. The anthias does act strange (and bullies a lot of the fish) by swimming up and down the corners and swimming at top under lights at night. One of the blue/green chromis has something wrong with it and has for a while. The fins are all "fuzzy", it acts like it has ADHD and swims crazy then will perch in the bottom of a corner facing up.

3. Losing fish - since setting up the tank, I've lost the following:
4 chromis (due to fighting "“ first fish added)
1 cardinal (just disappeared about 2 weeks after being added with other two cardinals)
1 square spot Anthias (stopped eating and died the next day in early Jan. Color faded overnight. Fins were ragged but I'm pretty sure the hermits did it.) It died the same day the Coral Beauty below died.
1 Coral Beauty angel (added at the same time the Rusty angel was put in) It got spots right a couple days after adding, but none of the other fish did. Quit eating for about 5 days before it died.
1 Flame angel - added at the same time as the Rusty and Coral Beauty because the LFS said they should go in together so they don't fight. Died less than a week later with no visible problems.
1 cleaner wrasse "“ Bought Jan 22. should not have been sold to me. LFS said they were easy to care for. It wouldn't eat and died 2 days after being added.
1 blenny "“ Also bought Jan. 22. not sure which type, light color with dark grey stripes. It started sifting within 20 minutes after being added to tank. Built a cave under the favites brain. About 5 days after adding it, I noticed the cleaner shrimp and hermits trying to get under the coral and saw they had a hold of the fish's tail. Picked up the coral and the blenny was dead. It was out swimming around the bottom earlier that day. Didn't show any signs of problems.

4. The pseudochromis is now staying in the rocks more than usual. Not coming out in the morning when I come into the room like it was. It's still eating, but seems to be stressed. I don't want to lose another fish, and "Barney" and I have a connection. He's not afraid of me, likes to ham it up when I pull out the magnifying glass, follows me from one end of tank to the other, etc. He does have spots some mornings, but they come off before mid-morning. I think its dust from sleeping inside the rocks.

As you can see, I've burned through the livestock. I have no plans on adding anything else other than corals for a long time. No need to lecture me on the QT. I get it. My LFS (both of them) said it wasn't necessary but I now know better thanks to you fine folks. I'm sure they love it when I come in and see $$ signs above my head. The LFS that tests my water doesn't think its water quality, but I can't figure out what the problem is. Do I need another power head? Not enough oxygen? It's aimed so that it creates ripples on the top of tank. Am I feeding too much/too little? Maybe I have too many, fish causing stress? The larger of the two cardinals chases the smaller one, so I'm sure that's not helping. The smaller cardinal stays hidden in the rocks or up at the top in the corners, but does eat well and looks well otherwise. Could their fighting be adding to the stress? I'm trying to get a handle on all this so I don't have to depend on the LFS or ask them questions. They both tell me I don't need a skimmer yet, even though I've lost all these fish and my nitrates don't seem to want to drop. At this point, I don't trust the advice I'm being given. I've read a ton on the RC site, but can't really figure out why I am losing fish. My husband thinks I'm a little freaky. I'm obsessed with getting this right, to the point that I can't seem to let myself enjoy the tank. So, I need to get it right! Can/would anyone like to tell me what I need to do better or how I can get it right?
 
Three months really isn't that long at all and you have a lot of stuff in there. I would just sit back and take it easy for awhile. Let your tank establish itself and all the cool critters that come with an established tank will flourish. I think you are trying to hard and adding too many things at once. I know that doesn't answer any of your questions directly but your tank is very young for all that livestock and coral. In my humble opinion.
Lose those bioballs and put some rock in there instead. There is nothing wrong with bioballs in my opinion but you need to rinse and rotate them, about 50 % at a time. They also don't harbor any anaerobic activity like rock does.
As for the algae, it sounds like coralline but I dunno. Maybe think about a skimmer, or fuge, or gfo in a reactor. I would get my own test kits if I were you. I wouldn't rely on my lfs to test my water. The internet is your friend, spend more time reading on here before you purchase any fish. I can see five fish that you could have saved some money on if you had only done a little research here first.
Your water quality may be spot on with test kits but that doesn't mean you have all the microfauna that comes with an established tank. I would also cut back on your feeding except your anthias need it more often. Have you checked your tank at night for pods on the glass?
 
OP:

Where to start? First, read all of the stickies at the top of this forum. You'll immediately recognize several problems starting with the pacing and level of stocking. You are way way way overstocked for a tank that young. Your filtration is not up to what would likely be necessary in a mature tank, much less one that is this immature. Start with a good skimmer.

It also sounds like you may have Ick. If so, there are a number of threads about treatment but your likely going to have to pull all of the fish from the tank, treat them in a qt, and let your display tank remain fishless for several weeks.

Finally, find a new fish store. From almost top to bottom, they have not served you well. If there aren't any others locally, buy online. You don't say where you are located but look at the reef club forms on Reef Central and find one that's close by. They can be your best resource for just about everything.

Again, start by reading ALL of the stickies and then come back and ask lots of questions. Your detailed tank description is great and will help you get diagnosis and advice. Keep reading and you'll come out OK.

Get rid of the test strips and buy a good test kit. Salifert is my preference and I know API gets some scorn, but either will work at this stage. My bet is that despite what the strip is showing, you have both nitrites and ammonia in your water.
 
Thanks for the quick response. I do have pods on the glass. Seem to have more each day. I see them in the morning mostly. Also have several pineapple sponges on the rocks and the corner where the return area is has a ton of sponges and other things behind the black plastic on the glass. I also have sever micr-brittles that I can see sticking out of the rocks the corals are on and some spaghetti worms have been witnessed on the glass. I have the API Reefmaster test kit, but I've read that several question the accuracy.

As for the bio balls, the LFS that sold me the tank setup said to NEVER clean them, just change the filter pad that is above them. The other LFS said to remove them because they can be a nitrate factory. I was going to pull a few out at a time and keep an eye on the parameters to make sure I don't cause more damage. If I put LR in the sump, any suggestions on how much?

Thanks again for your help.
 
As much as you can fit without having any of it be dry. I would definitely not be visiting that lfs if I were you. As you stated, you are a dollar sign to them. Api is pretty unreliable in my opinion. I have used three kits brand new back to back and had all of them read differently. Most lfs use them because they are cheap.
 
Yeah I'm guessing that you added way too much too fast. And you should DEF get a good skimmer.. Rated for more than your volume of tank water. (-- highly reccomended..

You should also try to not add any tap water to your tank. If you can get a RODI filter and mix your own it's way cheaper in the long run. And you will have RODI for top off.. If you are gonna run skimmer less you need to do more water changes than normal to export the nutrients the skimmer would usually remove.

Also invest in some good accurate test results. Some like API I personally have had horrible results with them and will never leave my tank's lively hood to the cheapest test kits on the market. IMo salifert or red sea is my choice.. Good luck and def don't add anything else till you get the tank up to par. And second guess anything that LFS tells you. Especially if they are selling you tap water.And get a skimmer you won't regret it I Promise. . Just sayin.
 
The Algae is due to high nitrates/phosphates, hence why they grow more with more lighting. It will be a while before your tank can handle the bioload so keep scrubbing and removing the algae. Don't buy any more fish until your nitrates go down. API is a great kit for basic softy/LPS tanks, doens't have the precision for SPS but it's much cheaper than salifert. BioBalls are fine if submerged Wet/Dry filters that use bioballs are only good if you don't have corals. Better to go with a refugium in the space to export algae.
Post a pic of the fuzzy fins search in the sick topics for a similar disease.
Also think you are feeding too much.
And certainly get a skimmer ~$300 range.

Any pics you post will increase the quality of the comments.
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I will absolutely not add anything else to the tank for a long time! I'll look into the skimmer and live rock for the sump rather than the balls. And will upgrade my test kits. I know the one LFS that has tested my water uses the Salifert tests.

As far as overfeeding, how do I feed the anthias and not the others? All but the cardinals and pseudochromis eat the flakes. Everything eats the frozen. should I just do the frozen twice a day, using half a cube for each feeding? Do I discontinue the pellets for the bottom feeders? I probably put in 8 little sinking pellets every 2-3 days.
 
mightymany said:
Thanks for all the feedback. I will absolutely not add anything else to the tank for a long time! I'll look into the skimmer and live rock for the sump rather than the balls. And will upgrade my test kits. I know the one LFS that has tested my water uses the Salifert tests.

As far as overfeeding, how do I feed the anthias and not the others? All but the cardinals and pseudochromis eat the flakes. Everything eats the frozen. should I just do the frozen twice a day, using half a cube for each feeding? Do I discontinue the pellets for the bottom feeders? I probably put in 8 little sinking pellets every 2-3 days.
Click to expand...

I doesn't sound like you are overfeeding however, I might consider changing the food. Mysis and Spirulina are nice supplements but I don't personally like them as the main food source. I'd go with one of the commercial preparations like Prime Reef frozen or Formula 1. These provide a nice food diversity and supplemental vitamins, etc. (Note that others will vehemently disagree on my preference for such preparations so this is JMHO.) One cube a day should do the trick for everyone. Cyclopseeze is a good supplement and you could add 1/4-1/2 cube to your feeding every couple of days.

The problem isn't likely with your feeding but how many fish you are feeding. Keep in mind that fish turn food into poop which needs to be handled by your clean up crew and your bacterial population. The problem is that your bacterial population is not sufficiently robust to support the amount of food that you need to feed your fish to keep them happy.

So...regular substantial H2O changes (at least weekly and at least 20% for the time being), careful monitoring of water quality, and not adding any more livestock for a couple of months should help. You may also want to add some Amquel or Prime to address any free Ammonia in your tank.
 
Sounds like you have ich, or worse. If you don't solve that problem and start using a QT with all new fish; any advice here isn't worth much.
 
I could treat, but can't see any spots except when the dottyback comes out first thing in the morning. It sleeps inside one of the rocks that has a hole in it. I know the inside of those rocks are dirty, because of the dust that comes out when I turkey baste/blow the rocks off. I'm not sure the chromis has ich, because it doesn't flash at all. it looks almost like lymphocyst. The fish has always been a spaz and has always been jumpy. The two chromis do that lip-lock thing too, but the second chromis is fine. Do you think I should treat the fish? I wasn't convinced they had it.
 
Correct me if I'm misread anything but why are you using tap water for your main tank and RO/DI just for top off? Makes no sense to me. Most folks use RO/DI when starting a saltwater tank.

I agree with test strips. Garbage and very unreliable.
 
I'm not using tap water. The LFS that set up my tank used tap water to mix the salt. Then I had them come do the first water change and they used tap water from my home again. All water changes since then have been with RO/DI water mixed with salt, as I've been doing them myself.
 
WOW... I wont go down the list that you asked about... except to say Yeah... to what they all said...

Where are you located?

I hope not around me... Personally that LFS is not in it for you. . . Well they are... they want to see you come back and come back... and prob blame the dead fish on you.
 
I will agree with most of what everyone else has said.
Too many Fish too soon, incompatible fish, etc.
People are all too willing to tell where you have gone wrong, but bot too many give advise on where to go from here.
Algae blooms in a new tank are par for the course, don't get too concerned about this.
Skimmer is probably a good investment. Get one thats rated at twice your water volume.
API test kits are actually not too bad with the exception of the Ammonia. Always reads .25.
Do consecutive water changes of about 25% each week for a couple of months to get as much fresh saltwater as you can to replace the tap you started with.
Run some phosphate sponge media in a media bag in your sump for a while to reduce phosphates, They are high because of the tap water. Remember to change it out every 4 to 5 days. After that long it will leach phosphates back into the system.
Be patient and don't give up. Keep in mind where you want to be with your system and take steps to get there.
Good luck.
 
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