Another option for red bugs
- Thread starter Whisperer
- Start date
Bayer Complete Insect Killer can be purchased as a liquid or granular formulation of the neonicotenoid insecticide imidacloprid. Read the label before applying any pesticide as the label says extremely toxic to aquatic organisms including fish. Also, the label provides important items like first aid information, ingredients, and dosage recommendations. Often a pesticide will contain petroleum based oils or surfactants to keep it in solution and these chemicals can also be quite toxic to aquatic life as well. You might consider yourself lucky as you could have nuked your entire tank. This type of insecticide is a systemic treatment when used on plants. In other words, its absorbed by the plant's tissue and lasts or persists in the plant's tissue for an extended period of time. No one really knows whether its absorbed by coral tissue, nor do we know the LD50 for this chemical on coral tissue. I would use lots of activated carbon to help remove any residue that may cause future problems. I hope this helps everybody.....Jim Z.
ousnakebyte
New member
This is interesting. I wonder if you can (or are up for it) test a few more concentrations and perhaps narrow down a treatment protocol...? It very well may come at the expense of some of your corals though.
My compliments.
Cheers
Mike
My compliments.
Cheers
Mike
Whisperer
New member
This morning, the test coral is alive and with polyp extension although signd of stress on the possible overdose are apparent on the tissues. NO trace of red bugs!
Jim, I premise in trying this experiment is that arthropods have common characteristics and similar vulnerabilities whether aquatic or terrestrial. So far, the treatment has eradicated the red bugs on the subject.
Note: This is the most polyp extension it had even before infestation. They were white before treatment, I see them turned greenish.
Jim, I premise in trying this experiment is that arthropods have common characteristics and similar vulnerabilities whether aquatic or terrestrial. So far, the treatment has eradicated the red bugs on the subject.
Note: This is the most polyp extension it had even before infestation. They were white before treatment, I see them turned greenish.
rtparty
Raise The Reef!
I do not want to take away from this thread or hijack it in any way but thought I would share my experience with red bugs.
I had them for months. I found a vet who will sell me Interceptor any time I need it. It is like $10 a pill though. Not cheap but cheap when compared to my $200 coral that is getting eaten.
Anyways I dosed for 4 straight weeks leaving the interceptor in the tank for up to 24 hours. I lost my sexy shrimp, crabs and a TON of pods. My tank still hasn't rebounded and it has been 3 or 4 months since I treated.
Even after 4 weeks of treating with Interceptor I had red bugs on corals. I probably killed 95% of them but there were stragglers and they mounted a come back. I got so sick of them I finally quit dosing and let them do their thing. I was using an entire pill for every dose and it didn't do the job. I only have a 40 gallon tank!
Finally one day I had to move the tank. The water got extremely cold, 65 to 66F. It remained there for probably 4 hours. Since then, I don't have a single red bug in the tank. My corals that had ZERO polyp extension for months, now have color back and full PE.
I found some others on here who stated that when they had a power outage it dropped their tank down in the 60s and they no longer had a red bug problem.
I am not saying that cold temps kill Red Bugs. I have no scientific proof of that but I have the proof that my tank is red bug free since my tanks water dropped down nice and cold for a few hours.
I don't think it is all coincidence.
I had them for months. I found a vet who will sell me Interceptor any time I need it. It is like $10 a pill though. Not cheap but cheap when compared to my $200 coral that is getting eaten.
Anyways I dosed for 4 straight weeks leaving the interceptor in the tank for up to 24 hours. I lost my sexy shrimp, crabs and a TON of pods. My tank still hasn't rebounded and it has been 3 or 4 months since I treated.
Even after 4 weeks of treating with Interceptor I had red bugs on corals. I probably killed 95% of them but there were stragglers and they mounted a come back. I got so sick of them I finally quit dosing and let them do their thing. I was using an entire pill for every dose and it didn't do the job. I only have a 40 gallon tank!
Finally one day I had to move the tank. The water got extremely cold, 65 to 66F. It remained there for probably 4 hours. Since then, I don't have a single red bug in the tank. My corals that had ZERO polyp extension for months, now have color back and full PE.
I found some others on here who stated that when they had a power outage it dropped their tank down in the 60s and they no longer had a red bug problem.
I am not saying that cold temps kill Red Bugs. I have no scientific proof of that but I have the proof that my tank is red bug free since my tanks water dropped down nice and cold for a few hours.
I don't think it is all coincidence.
ousnakebyte
New member
No, but you are not alone in your experience of possible resitance to the established Interceptor treatments. I have had bugs make it through multiple treatments as well.
I have tested another, more easily-obtained medication - Ivermectin, but I didn't want to hijack this thread, as it looks like a possible treatment as well. So, I posted a second thread here:
Ivermectin to control Tegastes
I wonder if both of these could be made stickies, since they seem promising. I plan on continuing my experiments with updates with other acroporids.
Cheers
Mike
Whisperer
New member
Proof!
Just found out that my soli next to the first coral with red buds also has red bugs!
This time I mixed a pint of tankwater and a squirt and a half of the Bayer Advanced and got to work...
Dipped for 10 minutes.
Here is another shot, with the Bayer in the background,
After treatment, coral is less stressed with the lesser concentration,
Where, oh where did the red bugs go?
Collateral damage: Amphipods and asterinas (I am sure copepods too).
Just found out that my soli next to the first coral with red buds also has red bugs!
This time I mixed a pint of tankwater and a squirt and a half of the Bayer Advanced and got to work...
Dipped for 10 minutes.
Here is another shot, with the Bayer in the background,
After treatment, coral is less stressed with the lesser concentration,
Where, oh where did the red bugs go?
Collateral damage: Amphipods and asterinas (I am sure copepods too).
Last edited:
ousnakebyte
New member
That's awesome. Are you able to transfer them to a holding tank that does not have red bugs (and/or other acroporids) so you can monitor and make sure there is no reinfection?
So... you have used approximately 1/2 liter (1 pint) of tank water. How much is "a squirt and a half" of the meds? How many milliliters?
So... you have used approximately 1/2 liter (1 pint) of tank water. How much is "a squirt and a half" of the meds? How many milliliters?
Hi,
If you find any tissue loss occurring, offer the corals less light for a while until the tissue recovers. Many pesticides when applied under sunny light levels can burn plant tissue so your treated corals may appreciate less light while recovering from the dip. You may not see any long term residual activity as the coral tissue might be able to degrade the neonicetenoid down to more harmless components. Keep track of your ammonia/nitrate/nitrate levels as your live rock bioload could be getting hammered by the pesticide. Yes, regarding your statement about arthropods behaving in similar fashion to an insecticide is logical, go slowly and make sure that live rock exposure is kept to a minimum. You may discover that less amounts may work just as good as the 4 ml dose.......Jim Z.
If you find any tissue loss occurring, offer the corals less light for a while until the tissue recovers. Many pesticides when applied under sunny light levels can burn plant tissue so your treated corals may appreciate less light while recovering from the dip. You may not see any long term residual activity as the coral tissue might be able to degrade the neonicetenoid down to more harmless components. Keep track of your ammonia/nitrate/nitrate levels as your live rock bioload could be getting hammered by the pesticide. Yes, regarding your statement about arthropods behaving in similar fashion to an insecticide is logical, go slowly and make sure that live rock exposure is kept to a minimum. You may discover that less amounts may work just as good as the 4 ml dose.......Jim Z.
wdt2000
Member
That is not true. It will not kill the adults or cause the dog to bleed out... You can actually use it to treat heartworms, but that something to discuss with a vet.
"Two studies in heartworm-infected dogs were conducted which demonstrated
mild, transient hypersensitivity reactions in treated dogs with high
microfilaremia counts"
Sorry to go off topic
fishieness
New member
silentscream
New member
This would be nice, and maybe not far from reality. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide that stays within plant tissue for 4-5 months. In my line of work we use it for aphid protection and grub protection mostly, but works on many different insects, some better than others. It would be fair to say that most of us carry imidacloprid in our bodies from the food we eat, unless we are on a 100% organic diet. Imidacloprid is also used for fleas on pets like Advantix from bayer.
I would be more concerned with the unlisted ingredients causing harm to the corals rather than the actual active ingredient. A lot of time these pesticides come with carriers or penetrating agents that help them get into the plant easier, and can sometimes even be harsh on the plant itself.
Very interesting that someone has gone and used imidacloprid, I've been wondering about the affects on red bugs for a long time but never tried using it since my local vet prescribes me interceptor for my reef.
