HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
Reread your linked article. Pay attention to the words "bleached" and "damaged". I'll refrain from attacking your "source".
Another ship stuck trying to prove lies...
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HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
I've heard it. It's also factored into warming projections and doesn't account for all of the current warming.
Seriously, people need to stop thinking that climate scientists are idiots and that an armchair scientist can debunk what they do for a living by surfing the internet.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
What?
thejuggernaut
Member
LOL...We have some true believers on our hands. Don't worry, vote for Hilary, she'll fix it. Global warming is the perfect progressive policy. It is the endless argument that requires no conclusive proof. It allows the people grasping for power to keep normal people segregated and fighting, while further centralizing power and money by enacting insane policies. Typically through the EPA, which breaks more than fixed BTW. For any "model" they put out, there is another that conflicts it. The only thing I can conclusively say about this "99%" of climate scientist is that history shows they have been 100% wrong. I also don't know where some of you are getting the number 99%. The 97% number I have heard of from years ago has been proven to be a farce and isn't true.
With all that said...
Do I think humans effect the climate? Probably
Is it catastrophic or irreversible? Probably not
Do I think we should try to come up with better energy alternatives in the future? For sure!
Do I think we should upturn our economy and put people out of work because of a set of theories and models that have become so corrupted and have so many holes poked in them that you can't tell what is real from what is a lie anymore? Absolutely not!!!
What do I think that anyone who says that the climate is changing irreversibly and that we are all going to die if we don't change how we power our lives this very moment? That they are very easily influenced by sensational BS from the media and the govt, or they are the ones doing the sensationalizing for power, money and political gain. Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler would be proud!!!!
Until then, I will run my AC as low as I want. Drive my old car that doesn't even have a catalytic converter, and fly airplanes that still run on leaded fuel! Although they are working on alternative unleaded fuels that will run in standard aircraft engines, and should be rolled out in the next few years.
With all that said...
Do I think humans effect the climate? Probably
Is it catastrophic or irreversible? Probably not
Do I think we should try to come up with better energy alternatives in the future? For sure!
Do I think we should upturn our economy and put people out of work because of a set of theories and models that have become so corrupted and have so many holes poked in them that you can't tell what is real from what is a lie anymore? Absolutely not!!!
What do I think that anyone who says that the climate is changing irreversibly and that we are all going to die if we don't change how we power our lives this very moment? That they are very easily influenced by sensational BS from the media and the govt, or they are the ones doing the sensationalizing for power, money and political gain. Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler would be proud!!!!
Until then, I will run my AC as low as I want. Drive my old car that doesn't even have a catalytic converter, and fly airplanes that still run on leaded fuel! Although they are working on alternative unleaded fuels that will run in standard aircraft engines, and should be rolled out in the next few years.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
TL;DR: ignorant hyperbole.
You seem to have forgotten to present a scientific argument to contradict scientific issues.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
I'd like to point out that thinking climate change is real is the opposite of belief because it's actually grounded in science and observation. The believers are those that believe all of the evidence is fabricated, that believe there's some vast conspiracy to take their money, that believe God won't allow this to happen because it doesn't fit some biblical narrative, or believe that everything will be OK no matter what. Those are the believers.
thejuggernaut
Member
That is the point. It's like religion. It is a belief system and is always something that is going to happen in the future that will never come to pass, so it is a never ending argument. If you think that you have conclusive evidence you are drinking the Koolaid. Even they know that. That is why they have been caught multiple times lying and tweaking the numbers to fit their POV. But honestly my post was just to try to get a rise out of people. But in all seriousness, we should all be good stewards of the environment, but with common sense solutions. I'll buy an electric car when I can charge it with ease while driving cross country, heck they have an 800 HP Tesla...I'll fly with unleaded fuel if the cost is reasonable when it comes out. I'll put solar panels on my home when it becomes close to economically viable. Note I said close, to me there is value in it to me, but it can't be double the price of current solutions.
There is a group of people who would say we should be banned from having reef tanks because we wreck eco systems. They are un-informed and don't understand that we have done more to understand the propagation and aquaculture of both corals and fishes.
There is a group of people who would say we should be banned from having reef tanks because we wreck eco systems. They are un-informed and don't understand that we have done more to understand the propagation and aquaculture of both corals and fishes.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
No, it's not like a religion. It's the opposite of religion. It's science.
Also, it's not something that's coming in the future. It's happening right now. Ice caps are melting, ocean levels are rising, temperature records are broken over and over. This is current, right now stuff that is being observed and measured, not predicted.
thejuggernaut
Member
Ice caps growing...
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses
No one is saying that the climate isn't and won't continue to change. The argument is how much of it is man made and how much of it is cyclical. We have been through massive changes to cold, then hot and back again. But like I said, it's hard to prove the un-provable. You can have your theories, and opinions, but not your own truths.
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses
No one is saying that the climate isn't and won't continue to change. The argument is how much of it is man made and how much of it is cyclical. We have been through massive changes to cold, then hot and back again. But like I said, it's hard to prove the un-provable. You can have your theories, and opinions, but not your own truths.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
That section of ice is getting thicker, but overall we're losing ice around the world, such as from Greenland. How else do you think sea levels are rising? Also, the increase in ice is due to more snow caused by moisture released from warmer waters.
Nice link, though. Did you happen to read the other articles on that page? Doesn't exactly support your argument, does it?
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thejuggernaut
Member
What's my argument?
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
I guess you're not really denying what's happening, you just think it isn't a big deal, which might actually be worse. It'd be like if a house were on fire. A climate change denier wouldn't believe it was on fire until they saw it with their own eyes. Once they did, they might grab a hose and help put it out. People like yourself will just sit and watch it burn because you have home insurance. There's no Earth insurance, unfortunately.
reef thief
New member
It isn't polite to talk about the sun when it isn't here to defend itself. STOP IT. Recorded history can mildly document shifts in climate and humans truly don't have the 100% on what has happened since the Earth was born. Sure Sunday school taught me that an asteroid came caused a flood and turned all of the dinosaurs gay. That's why they're not around. Maybe that's 100% true but probably not. It was before my time and I choose to live in the present. When I was on the Iran/Iraq border I heard accounts from the elderly describe a different environment from the one that exists and, yes, we can rule out modern warfare from destroying forests and lakes from that area because the environment turned barren before it happened. How does an existing generation recall such an acute change? Why do they describe such a drastic change in temp? It wasn't seasonal. It wasn't man made. It was just happening and in the end nature will figure out a compromise for survival. Unless we can stop it early which we won't. Leave BOB out of this.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
I laughed at your dinosaur theory. Otherwise, I don't know what you're on about.
reef thief
New member
It's simple. We always say "don't believe everything you here in the media". Including historical data about climate. My point is that many can account for climate shift in one lifetime. Their own memory is better testimony than a scientist's theory. For example, would you want to learn about the moon from Wiki or from Buzz Aldrin? Would you want a class on giving birth from a male doctor or a high school educated mom with 6 kids?
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
The media isn't making this stuff up out of thin air. There are scientific studies that you can read if you're so inclined.
And no, a single person's memory of climate in one geographical area in one lifetime is nowhere near as reliable or useful as a historical climate study by climate scientists. Not to mention that there are actual measurements dating back a number of decades now. There's no reason to rely on anecdotal evidence from a person who is alive today.
And no, a single person's memory of climate in one geographical area in one lifetime is nowhere near as reliable or useful as a historical climate study by climate scientists. Not to mention that there are actual measurements dating back a number of decades now. There's no reason to rely on anecdotal evidence from a person who is alive today.
reef thief
New member
One side of the media states that our climate is not changing. Another side says that it is. But somehow both sides have their facts straight? <----this...This right here is why messenger is the most secure and accurate form of communication. FOX news is the second. JK. The internet, University studies, and magazines are good for info on controlled studies but anyone at anytime could throw numbers on paper and call it a study. Everyday tens of thousands of Americans die from vaccines. There you have it. that's how many people died and also had a flu vax at some time in there life. I wish National Geographic would film a reality show about Japanese whaling crews and the struggles they face.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
That's more an issue with our media. It's sort of customary to show both sides of a story or issue. This means that when there's a climate change expert on television, there will be a climate change denier on as well. This isn't actually how it should be, because deniers don't have equal footing in the scientific world, yet they're given the same amount of time in the media to sway public opinion.
I'll ask you this: since you don't want to rely on the media, who should we rely on? The only other source, in my mind, are the scientists. You ever wonder why oil companies don't fund actual research? Because they know the science will not be in their favor. So, they focus on public policy and public opinion, basically putting politicians and media personnel on their payroll.
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