Another ship stuck trying to prove lies...

[HippieSmell]

Unfortunately I am not exaggerating, The EPA controls more of whats made, how its made and who makes it then most people know. They do not allow a level playing field at all. it is quiet the opposite. They have for all intensive purposes removed the free market from alot of things. I do agree we need some sort of guard rails and enforcement on industry to insure the environment we live in isnt turned into a junk heap. They have just been allowed too far and are now too power full. The dont regulate the environment anymore they regulate industry.

a family member worked there for 17 years and left due to some of the inconsistencies and favoritism some were shown. Believe it or dont, it doesnt change what goes on.

I won't pretend to know the inner workings of the EPA, but if there's favoritism going on it should be brought to light. If there is, I'll bet it's tied to campaign contributions. I'm not aware of any significant EPA scandal, however. Either way, the EPA is a much needed agency and the assault by some on its very existence is a step backwards.

 

[power boat jim]

I won't pretend to know the inner workings of the EPA, but if there's favoritism going on it should be brought to light. If there is, I'll bet it's tied to campaign contributions. I'm not aware of any significant EPA scandal, however. Either way, the EPA is a much needed agency and the assault by some on its very existence is a step backwards.

I wont say it should not exist. They have done some good things in the past. You cant have a scandal unless things are brought to light. There are certain checks and audits that are done but they are performed by the agency itself. Think what you want about that. All I will say is things changed some years ago and the system is not as it used to be. I will leave it at that.

 

[HippieSmell]

I wont say it should not exist. They have done some good things in the past. You cant have a scandal unless things are brought to light. There are certain checks and audits that are done but they are performed by the agency itself. Think what you want about that. All I will say is things changed some years ago and the system is not as it used to be. I will leave it at that.

I know the EPA has been recently used to bypass an obstructionist Congress. I'm sure some will see that as corrupt. I'm just speculating about what you're implying.

 

[Fredfish]

I wont say it should not exist. They have done some good things in the past. You cant have a scandal unless things are brought to light. There are certain checks and audits that are done but they are performed by the agency itself. Think what you want about that. All I will say is things changed some years ago and the system is not as it used to be. I will leave it at that.

There is some irony in that. Government agencies are no better at regulating themselves than private corporations.

 

[alton]

There is some irony in that. Government agencies are no better at regulating themselves than private corporations.

http://www.sacurrent.com/sanantonio...er-property-changes-hands/Content?oid=2241824

The answer here was to give it to the city

 

[Defiant Arms]

i watch suspicious observer every day its a great youtube channel and informative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBTKC_asylk

 

[Fredfish]

http://www.sacurrent.com/sanantonio...er-property-changes-hands/Content?oid=2241824

The answer here was to give it to the city

Global warming is going to be a little hard to give away...

 

[Bent]

Actually I was thinking it was Toyota and Datsun/Nissan/ BMW/Volkswagon/Mercedes? Although Regulation killed the Hummer and the Ford Excursion. At 7 mpg both where not going to last. Although for some reason now they no longer give fuel economy for large trucks? And that same regulation let Toyota build Tundras like no end because of all the Camry's and Corrolla's getting 30+ miles to the gallon, it helps with there average to meet the standards. But at 13 mpg I still would never own one, but that's my choice not the government. We as a nation have become to dependent on the government to fix everything, and take care of everyone. Sorry I got off of the subject

Where did you get that hummer models got 7mpg?

My h3 on 35's got 15, my h2 on 40" super swampers got 12.

A diesel conversion h2 can get 20-25mpg.

the original non turbo h1 gets about 12, the turbo diesel Z block gets about 15, and the cast iron turbo F block gets about 18.

Anyway, fuel economy only paints a small part of the picture anyway, here's why:

Combine those hummer fuel economy numbers with the amount built and sold and then compare it to something insanely popular like the Ford F-150 which has just surpassed 250,000 units sold in 2016. 2015 total f150 sales were above 700,000 units. That's in a single year.

The best sales year that hummer had was 2003 and they sold a grand total of about 34,000 units. That's literally 20x less sales numbers. Which means that every f150 you see is putting out over 20x more pollutants than the H2, which made me scratch my head a little when hummer got so much grief for fuel economy based upon little fact and a lot of emotional response.

 

[alton]

Well Bent I guess that was a bad rumor I heard, but there was plenty of them on IH10 out of gas when a hurricane was suppose to hit Houston some time back as they traveled to San Antonio and could not find gas. Although I did have a friend who had the same 6.0 in his 4 door chevy and he got 13 on a good day. So you must of had a good one that managed 12. Sorry I like my 2001 Duramax 6.6 at almost 250K miles.

 

[alton]

But it is on the internet, so it has to be true?
https://www.reference.com/vehicles/hummer-h2-s-gas-mileage-5fd3c663bbc38684
Hey once again if you want it go for it. My deal is I see people driving from SA to Austin everyday which is 120 miles round trip, even if you are getting 30 mpg you are still wasting fuel over someone who drives ten miles to work and get 10 mpg.

 

[HippieSmell]

Anyway, fuel economy only paints a small part of the picture anyway, here's why:

Combine those hummer fuel economy numbers with the amount built and sold and then compare it to something insanely popular like the Ford F-150 which has just surpassed 250,000 units sold in 2016. 2015 total f150 sales were above 700,000 units. That's in a single year.

The best sales year that hummer had was 2003 and they sold a grand total of about 34,000 units. That's literally 20x less sales numbers. Which means that every f150 you see is putting out over 20x more pollutants than the H2, which made me scratch my head a little when hummer got so much grief for fuel economy based upon little fact and a lot of emotional response.

That is some seriously fuzzy math.

 

[Potatohead]

That is some seriously fuzzy math.

It's ok to be a murderer because there aren't very many murderers


What?

 

[CHSUB]

Where did you get that hummer models got 7mpg?

My h3 on 35's got 15, my h2 on 40" super swampers got 12.

A diesel conversion h2 can get 20-25mpg.

the original non turbo h1 gets about 12, the turbo diesel Z block gets about 15, and the cast iron turbo F block gets about 18.

Anyway, fuel economy only paints a small part of the picture anyway, here's why:

Combine those hummer fuel economy numbers with the amount built and sold and then compare it to something insanely popular like the Ford F-150 which has just surpassed 250,000 units sold in 2016. 2015 total f150 sales were above 700,000 units. That's in a single year.

The best sales year that hummer had was 2003 and they sold a grand total of about 34,000 units. That's literally 20x less sales numbers. Which means that every f150 you see is putting out over 20x more pollutants than the H2, which made me scratch my head a little when hummer got so much grief for fuel economy based upon little fact and a lot of emotional response.

the grief about the hummer was more about the tax break, which is based on fact and without emotion. few would have bought one without it....

http://www.section179.org/section_179_vehicle_deductions.html

 

[Bent]

the grief about the hummer was more about the tax break, which is based on fact and without emotion. few would have bought one without it....

http://www.section179.org/section_179_vehicle_deductions.html

The tax break loophole was closed years ago. You can only get it now if you buy the vehicle for small business purposes. It was meant to give people tax breaks on dump trucks and commercial vehicles. And no, the treehuggers were not upset about the tax break.

 

[Bent]

That is some seriously fuzzy math.

It's really not. Two vehicles will expel more pollutants than one.

 

[Defiant Arms]

Well Bent I guess that was a bad rumor I heard, but there was plenty of them on IH10 out of gas when a hurricane was suppose to hit Houston some time back as they traveled to San Antonio and could not find gas. Although I did have a friend who had the same 6.0 in his 4 door chevy and he got 13 on a good day. So you must of had a good one that managed 12. Sorry I like my 2001 Duramax 6.6 at almost 250K miles.

Need to do a LLY swap when the time comes :bounce3: sorry i spend to much time on a duramaxdiesels forum

 

[CHSUB]

The tax break loophole was closed years ago. You can only get it now if you buy the vehicle for small business purposes. It was meant to give people tax breaks on dump trucks and commercial vehicles. And no, the treehuggers were not upset about the tax break.

the tax break was closed, yes; but only after hummer had record sales. every lawyer, doctor, and anyone else with two nickels in Miami was buying them. A dealership in South Miami open just to sell them. After the tax break went away the dealership went back to selling Cadies again and now hummer is gone. The loophole was changed because of the weight of the vehicle not the gas mileage, which few people cared about.

 

[HippieSmell]

It's really not. Two vehicles will expel more pollutants than one.

You said every F150 produced 20x more pollution than a Hummer, which is a silly thing to say. It's like saying it's OK for one street in Bel Aire to water their lawns during a drought because it's less water than what's sweated out by migrant workers as they tend the fields.

 

[reef thief]

20X sounds about right......somehow. Why trust science when we can just make up real things. Every ten seconds an American dies from a vaccine.

 

[Bent]

the tax break was closed, yes; but only after hummer had record sales. every lawyer, doctor, and anyone else with two nickels in Miami was buying them. A dealership in South Miami open just to sell them. After the tax break went away the dealership went back to selling Cadies again and now hummer is gone. The loophole was changed because of the weight of the vehicle not the gas mileage, which few people cared about.

Record sales? Hardly.

I don't want to get into a vehicle debate here, but you do realize that the most sales the H2 ever had was 33,000 units in 2005 world wide? And we are just talking about the H2 here because it was the only vehicle in the hummer line that qualified for the tax break.

Guess what the yearly F150 sales were for 2005? 900,000 units in the US alone, international sales equaled about 70,000 units. That's almost a million vehicles put on the road. Fuel economy for the f150 4x4 in 2005 was about 14city and 16hwy. Slightly better than the H2, but by sheer numbers, you tell me which brand polluted the environment more that year.