Another Stupid question - sorry.

[lllesley]

Ok, hope this doesn't appear to be too stupid but I really am after some advice please.
I have read a lot of info on cycling and have a good understanding of the bacteria cycle. But I just dont want to risk any of my existing livestock.

My first tank was purchased 2nd hand - up running and stocked.
Current tank was an upgrade from the first one, so I have never cycled a tank - lucky me.

If I was to upgrade this tank, but not want to use any of the live rock i currently have, so essentially starting with all new base rock but put 4 kgs of seeded (currently in sump now) Seachem matrix and all the live rock from current tank into the sump of the new upgrade tank, would I still have to cycle ?

My current total water volume is 1500ltrs with about 150kg of rock in DT and 80kg live rock and 4kg matrix in sump.

I would use Seachem prime an stability at the time of the move. I did this during the mini cycle i had on this upgrade.

My new total water volume would be 3000lts. So approx double.
My new set up would be all new base rock in DT. New sand bed
150kgs of old DT live rock & 4 Kgs matrix in the sump only.

I would be moving over a full stock of corals and fish ?
I would certainly be expecting some kind of mini cycle but would I get a full cycle to the stage it will / may harm any livestock I moved over ?

 

[shifty51008]

You will most likely see a mini cycle. If you have time and room i would actually cycle the new rock in a seperate container before the move this way you wouldnt get a cycle or cause any harm to your fish or corals.

BTW there are never any stupid questions so ask away.

 

[lllesley]

You will most likely see a mini cycle. If you have time and room i would actually cycle the new rock in a seperate container before the move this way you wouldnt get a cycle or cause any harm to your fish or corals.

BTW there are never any stupid questions so ask away.

Firstly thank you for your comments.
We did think about cycling the new rock in some way but it will be about 250-300kgs. We cant afford to have 2 tanks running of this size. Let alone the room. We were intending to have both tanks running for a couple of days to accomplish the move over and that's it.
If the rock and matrix was moved over from water to water (matter of mins) I am hoping there will be no die off?
Are you saying the minicyle will come from die off of the live rock from old DT to new sump ?
Or the double water volume will actually be the issue, although no EXTRA stock will be added. ?

 

[Ron Reefman]

If the rock and matrix was moved over from water to water (matter of mins) I am hoping there will be no die off?
You shouldn't have any die off, or very, very little. Most anything that lives in our LR in an aquarium is quite hearty. Especially the bacteria.

Are you saying the minicyle will come from die off of the live rock from old DT to new sump ?
The mini-cycle will be due more to all the new stuff in the new tank that may provide the material to create a small ammonia level and start a small cycle. It depends on what new things you put in the new system, like new sand, new rocks, new fish, and whatever. Also, almost any time you move rocks and/or sand, you stir up 'stuff' that adds to the process that causes the ammonia to spike some. But it shouldn't be a big deal. Even rinsing the LR in a 5g bucket with clean saltwater can help remove any rotting stuff that can cause that mini spike.

Or the double water volume will actually be the issue, although no EXTRA stock will be added. ?
If the water is ro/di with very low TDS and new salt mix, and there is nothing else new going in the system, then you may not have any cycle at all. But I would be careful about how quickly you do add new fish, corals or other inverts to the system as the increased bio-load can again cause a very small cycle. But this happens with all new tanks as bio-loads are increased. It's usually so small you may not even notice unless you test very frequently.

 

[lllesley]

If the rock and matrix was moved over from water to water (matter of mins) I am hoping there will be no die off?
You shouldn't have any die off, or very, very little. Most anything that lives in our LR in an aquarium is quite hearty. Especially the bacteria.

Are you saying the minicyle will come from die off of the live rock from old DT to new sump ?
The mini-cycle will be due more to all the new stuff in the new tank that may provide the material to create a small ammonia level and start a small cycle. It depends on what new things you put in the new system, like new sand, new rocks, new fish, and whatever. Also, almost any time you move rocks and/or sand, you stir up 'stuff' that adds to the process that causes the ammonia to spike some. But it shouldn't be a big deal. Even rinsing the LR in a 5g bucket with clean saltwater can help remove any rotting stuff that can cause that mini spike.

Or the double water volume will actually be the issue, although no EXTRA stock will be added. ?
If the water is ro/di with very low TDS and new salt mix, and there is nothing else new going in the system, then you may not have any cycle at all. But I would be careful about how quickly you do add new fish, corals or other inverts to the system as the increased bio-load can again cause a very small cycle. But this happens with all new tanks as bio-loads are increased. It's usually so small you may not even notice unless you test very frequently.

Wow. Thank you for quick & thoughtful posting. Very much appreciated. Lots to think about. This is why I love forums. Experience is invaluable. Cheers

 

[Ron Reefman]

You are welcome. I don't claim to be a scientist, or even an expert, but I have 15 years of experience and I have over 600 gallons of saltwater in 4 tanks and 2 sumps in my house! Lots of people here and in my local club helped me out a lot when I was starting and I think of it as Paying it Forward.

 

[homer1475]

Whenever you transfer to a new tank, even if your not adding anything new, your going to have a small cycle(ammonia spike). I had a small cycle just from redoing my aquascape and my rocks never came out of the water! Your stirring stuff up and that can be bad sometimes. Just keep some prime on hand, and let the new tank settle for a couple weeks before adding anything new.

I agree 100% on Ron Reefmans post.

FYI, the only stupid question is the one not asked!

 

[Sk8r]

I did this, and semi-survived. I kept the sump/fuge going, moved the rock and livestock (but not the sand) from the old tank, and let the sump serve as 'guts' to enliven the new tank, the whole operation done in five hours. I lost no fish, had no discernible cycle, (which on a 'house move' set-up usually happens in five days) but did lose some corals. I wish I'd had the room to run a cycle on the new tank: I wouldn't have had the problems I did, because pinning a 7 year old sump-fuge to a new tank will cycle it, but leaves you with a very dirty sump-fuge that itself needs to be cleaned up, once the dt is live.

 

[lllesley]

Thank you for your responses.
It seems i may well be possible then.
I wont be moving the old sump over, it will be a new sump on the new tank, just all the DT rock will be moved into the sump is all.
The New DT will contain nothing but base dead rock.
New tank needs to be placed where old tank is and thats the biggest problem as to why we cant cycle the new tank.