myreefcentral
Member
Hmm...interesting...now wouldn't that just be an insult if anyone sees something that he owes them in that picture...
Any one know VikeBron (username)
- Thread starter Plan>B
- Start date
Sisterlimonpot
Premium Member
we are all hearing one side of the story, Plan B now that you have his phone number give him a call.
The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
We are hearing one side but why hasn't Steve responded? I know if someone were taking shots at me I would be all over it. I know some don't like him, mostly because of the Hawaiian buy deal but he always seemed like a stand up guy (From my few conversations and one meeting) to me other than that escapade.
zombiereef
New member
he wont reply to this because it causes nothing but mayhem. he choses to ignore the forums. there is a lot of misunderstanding/backstabbing/meddling/lying amongst the reefers here and there is nothing that Steve can say or do to make it better. it is pretty rediculous and i think everyone wishes it was different. i am with you Grim, i think Steve is a stand-up guy. a lot of people that have done business with him are satisfied. every situation needs to be looked at closely, because there are mistakes made by both sides in some of these misdealings. unreturned phone calls, missed apointments to pick things up etc...
everyone is a tough-guy behind the keyboard.
everyone is a tough-guy behind the keyboard.
The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
I should probably clarify the comment on the Hawaiian buy deal for those who weren't aware. Steve didn't burn anyone on that. He just complained to the importer so the guy wouldn't let the club do a group buy.
runningstix
New member
Which in itself is a d-bag move, which would not have been made by a "stand up guy"
rmougey
Chair, MACNA 2014
Steve participated in group buys with this diver/supplier through the club till he opened his own store, then derailed further GBs by telling the diver that if the diver continued to do GBs, Steve would not purchase from him. 'It's just business' was his reasoning.
Steve's store went belly up, the diver moved on and is no longer collecting and the GBs continue using different suppliers.
I don't know the man; never set foot in his store and didn't participate in the frenzy that ensued just prior to closing. Hopefully everyone gets what they paid for or their money back, and hopefully Steve got paid for everything everyone took with them.
There is NO excuse for not following through, regardless if one said they would pay, or one sold an item. In today's electronic world, there is ALWAYS a way to get a hold of someone to finalize a transaction. Lack of communication is never acceptable. It's only takes a minute to respond, follow up or refund some money.
-Rob
zombiereef
New member
unfortunately things are different when you own a shop. shop owners hate group buys because it is lost income for them. period. Steve had a contract with the hawaiian wholesaler. the seller agreed to not do any group buys and to be Steve's main fish guy. the wholesaler then decided that wasnt good enough and did some group buys and broke the contract. Steve heard about the group buys and called him on it. anybody here would have done the same thing unless you have no spine. the wholesaler guy was obviously a flake.
it is a business and you must do what it takes to keep that business. sometimes you have to make contracts to protect yourself and your business. there are people putting on "group buys" that are not really group buys at all. its just a few people buying from someone with a wholesaler's license(which seem to be a dime a dozen these days). you cant tell me that the legit stores arent cringing everytime one of these lights up the internet. it is a very difficult hobby to be successful in, much less as a business. i wouldnt wish a fish store on anybody, even though i have been tempted myself. the internet killed the fish store in more ways than one.
Steve's store didnt go belly up. he shut it down to take over his (deceased) father's business in MN. He has since returned after selling the business in MN and is back in FOCO.
while we are on the topic...as for the guy who was moving into the old FRA shop: he wrecked that deal himself. It had nothing to do with Steve. the guy who owns the store doubled the rent on him. the city inspectors let Steve slide on a lot of things because Steve was reasonable with them. that isnt what i heard about the owner of garden under the sea or whatever it's called. sounds like he went in and told the city what he wanted them to do. doesnt work that way in the real world.
it is a business and you must do what it takes to keep that business. sometimes you have to make contracts to protect yourself and your business. there are people putting on "group buys" that are not really group buys at all. its just a few people buying from someone with a wholesaler's license(which seem to be a dime a dozen these days). you cant tell me that the legit stores arent cringing everytime one of these lights up the internet. it is a very difficult hobby to be successful in, much less as a business. i wouldnt wish a fish store on anybody, even though i have been tempted myself. the internet killed the fish store in more ways than one.
Steve's store didnt go belly up. he shut it down to take over his (deceased) father's business in MN. He has since returned after selling the business in MN and is back in FOCO.
while we are on the topic...as for the guy who was moving into the old FRA shop: he wrecked that deal himself. It had nothing to do with Steve. the guy who owns the store doubled the rent on him. the city inspectors let Steve slide on a lot of things because Steve was reasonable with them. that isnt what i heard about the owner of garden under the sea or whatever it's called. sounds like he went in and told the city what he wanted them to do. doesnt work that way in the real world.
FCdenzreef
New member
I used to think Steve was a stand up guy for a long time I even worked for him at front range. That is utill he screwed me on selling chiller that didn't even work! Reefcentral Is full of "mayhem" because of people like him. I now know of at least 4 transactions that have gone bad involving him, coincidence? I think not. So to those of you who think Steve is a "stand-up guy" don't come crying when he stabs you in the back.
rmougey
Chair, MACNA 2014
First..... IBTL! 
No and Yes. Things are not different when you own a shop. Been there, done that. You are presented with choices as a retailer. You can work with or against your potential customers. The latter guarantees failure.
Many LFS do cringe, however it does not necessarily reflect lost income (sales). I can guarantee that there would be no reason for me to ever drive to FoCo to buy anything from a retailer. That's not within my geographical market. One must be honest about the local market, and I'm pretty sure that local doesn't include the entire state or Colorado or the western US.
Really? All Steve was planning on carrying was hand caught native Hawaiian fish? I didn't realize that.
I could see an agreement to supply critters at a specific discount off wholesale based on volume purchases, but what benefit would it be to a wholesaler to enter to an exclusivity contract with a small LFS? Particularly one that was well outside the major population area?
Based on personal conversations with the diver, there was an agreement in place not to sell directly to individuals in the local market. The diver had always sold retail direct to the consumer prior to this. Obviously there was a bit of disagreement on what constituted the local market. This isn't an issue unique to CO, but has cropped up and will continue to crop up with both FL and HI collectors.
While I personally am unaware of the divers scalp conditions, I do know that he was an effective collector and provided quality product. There are many diver direct folks out there and they come and go on a regular basis. Any Tom, Dick, or Harriet can jump in the water and sell the fish they catch. But just because one can wield a net, it doesn't mean that one is an accomplished collector or LFS owner for that matter.
The success of business at any cost is sort of what got us into this current mess to begin with isn't it? Businesses do not relinquish social or community responsibilities, nor do they abandon ethics when they incorporate; at least they shouldn't.
As I mentioned before, no contract existed. That would require a signed document, typically reviewed by one's attorney, between the parties involved. It would outline the associated costs, benefits and responsibilities of each party. I'd say that what existed sounded more like a backroom deal that ended up benefiting no one.
You are correct, anyone can get a wholesaler or resale license. You pay your fee, register your company with the state and go forth to make your fortune..... or not.
You bet they do. Technology is a double edged sword. It's a boon for consumers yet challenging for brick and mortar retailers. This isn't just an LFS issue, the entire retail goods market is becoming much more flat.
Rather than killing the LFS, it presents opportunities to expand to new markets and leverage new tools. Sadly, many do not adapt and subsequently fail. There will always be folks who want to shop locally, folks who look for the cheapest price they can find on-line and folks who sit in-between. The retailer needs to know their market.
Many folks think that they can turn a hobby into a business. Most businesses fail within the first two years due to under capitalization and inadequate, or non-existent business plans.
I'll grant you that the semantics may not be correct. As a successful small business owner, I would seek other avenues to maintain my successful business rather than liquidate it. Situations can differ though. Irregardless of the reason, the aforementioned business is no longer. My point was that that the attitude perceived by many served no useful purpose for the retailer. That is poor business, or poor public relations if you prefer.
I have no knowledge of those dealings, however I would wonder about a landlord who doubles the rent on a potential tenant in these times of high vacancy rates. I would also question the new owners choices in not verifying the lease and it's remaining term. Most city inspectors that I know (10 years as IT manager in local city gov't) don't let anyone slide. Your business is in compliance or it isn't. I guarantee that the Fire Marshall won't take a handshake and a smile to fix issues.
You are correct, telling any city what you want them to do only works when you are working with the Economic Development folks. They are the ones who entice small and large businesses to stay in their city through sales and use tax rebates, as well as special financing and other incentives. Cities like to keep a sales tax base, if at all possible.
-Rob
No and Yes. Things are not different when you own a shop. Been there, done that. You are presented with choices as a retailer. You can work with or against your potential customers. The latter guarantees failure.
Many LFS do cringe, however it does not necessarily reflect lost income (sales). I can guarantee that there would be no reason for me to ever drive to FoCo to buy anything from a retailer. That's not within my geographical market. One must be honest about the local market, and I'm pretty sure that local doesn't include the entire state or Colorado or the western US.
Really? All Steve was planning on carrying was hand caught native Hawaiian fish? I didn't realize that.
I could see an agreement to supply critters at a specific discount off wholesale based on volume purchases, but what benefit would it be to a wholesaler to enter to an exclusivity contract with a small LFS? Particularly one that was well outside the major population area?
Based on personal conversations with the diver, there was an agreement in place not to sell directly to individuals in the local market. The diver had always sold retail direct to the consumer prior to this. Obviously there was a bit of disagreement on what constituted the local market. This isn't an issue unique to CO, but has cropped up and will continue to crop up with both FL and HI collectors.
While I personally am unaware of the divers scalp conditions, I do know that he was an effective collector and provided quality product. There are many diver direct folks out there and they come and go on a regular basis. Any Tom, Dick, or Harriet can jump in the water and sell the fish they catch. But just because one can wield a net, it doesn't mean that one is an accomplished collector or LFS owner for that matter.
The success of business at any cost is sort of what got us into this current mess to begin with isn't it? Businesses do not relinquish social or community responsibilities, nor do they abandon ethics when they incorporate; at least they shouldn't.
As I mentioned before, no contract existed. That would require a signed document, typically reviewed by one's attorney, between the parties involved. It would outline the associated costs, benefits and responsibilities of each party. I'd say that what existed sounded more like a backroom deal that ended up benefiting no one.
You are correct, anyone can get a wholesaler or resale license. You pay your fee, register your company with the state and go forth to make your fortune..... or not.
You bet they do. Technology is a double edged sword. It's a boon for consumers yet challenging for brick and mortar retailers. This isn't just an LFS issue, the entire retail goods market is becoming much more flat.
Rather than killing the LFS, it presents opportunities to expand to new markets and leverage new tools. Sadly, many do not adapt and subsequently fail. There will always be folks who want to shop locally, folks who look for the cheapest price they can find on-line and folks who sit in-between. The retailer needs to know their market.
Many folks think that they can turn a hobby into a business. Most businesses fail within the first two years due to under capitalization and inadequate, or non-existent business plans.
I'll grant you that the semantics may not be correct. As a successful small business owner, I would seek other avenues to maintain my successful business rather than liquidate it. Situations can differ though. Irregardless of the reason, the aforementioned business is no longer. My point was that that the attitude perceived by many served no useful purpose for the retailer. That is poor business, or poor public relations if you prefer.
I have no knowledge of those dealings, however I would wonder about a landlord who doubles the rent on a potential tenant in these times of high vacancy rates. I would also question the new owners choices in not verifying the lease and it's remaining term. Most city inspectors that I know (10 years as IT manager in local city gov't) don't let anyone slide. Your business is in compliance or it isn't. I guarantee that the Fire Marshall won't take a handshake and a smile to fix issues.
You are correct, telling any city what you want them to do only works when you are working with the Economic Development folks. They are the ones who entice small and large businesses to stay in their city through sales and use tax rebates, as well as special financing and other incentives. Cities like to keep a sales tax base, if at all possible.
-Rob
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The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
I could really care less about why the new owner is losing or lost the store. If all the things people said Steve pulled on him are true it's still the new guy's fault for not doing his homework.
The Hawaiian deal was at a minimum very poorly handled by Steve, contract or not but he didn't rip anyone off on the deal.
The thing is "one of out own" has been accused of ripping off more than one person and fails to attempt to set the record straight. That tells me all I need to know. As I said before if things got crazy and Steve let some deals slide through the cracks that is understandable although not acceptable. If that were the case I would expect to have seen him responding to set the record straight. As it stands now I wouldn't consider dealing with him.
The Hawaiian deal was at a minimum very poorly handled by Steve, contract or not but he didn't rip anyone off on the deal.
The thing is "one of out own" has been accused of ripping off more than one person and fails to attempt to set the record straight. That tells me all I need to know. As I said before if things got crazy and Steve let some deals slide through the cracks that is understandable although not acceptable. If that were the case I would expect to have seen him responding to set the record straight. As it stands now I wouldn't consider dealing with him.
zombiereef
New member
fcdenizon-that chiller was sold by Steve on consignment. as far as i understand, you knew it didnt work and your beef is with the owner of the chiller.
Rob, you wouldnt want to drive up to FOCO to buy anything at our only lfs left. the prices there have forced many to buy their goods online or with group buys!!!
Rob, you wouldnt want to drive up to FOCO to buy anything at our only lfs left. the prices there have forced many to buy their goods online or with group buys!!!
FCdenzreef
New member
Well if anyone knows who the actual owner of the chiller was please private me that info. As for me knowing it did not work that is ubsurd. I asked steve several times if it worked and his response was " it works great I have been using it on the tank over there " referring to the tank on the east wall that had all the rbtas in it. Noone would buy a broken chiller for 350.00 .
The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
Why in hell would anyone buy a chiller they knew was broken, let alone agree to take in on consignment? Just asking, not stirring.
hoodrat
New member
Yeah if steve was to sell a chiller on "consignment" Then he should know if the thing works or not. Lets just face the facts whether you are or are not his friend.
He has had more than a few shady deals including the one with the original poster. I believe if you are going to sell anything it takes a few secs to reply to and keep everyone intuned to what is going on. But when you seem to continue take in money and either not ship the material or ship out material that is broken or used and not stated as so.
I have had some dalings with steve when his store was open so good and some not so good. But the one consistant thing was that if anyone else was in the store. I never got a hello or anything else until the other customers were gone.
These are just my feelings on this subject and there is a forum for dealings with people and if ya feel you got screwed. Make sure you let it be known in there so either others who might possibly buy from him know what they are getting into. Thanks mike
He has had more than a few shady deals including the one with the original poster. I believe if you are going to sell anything it takes a few secs to reply to and keep everyone intuned to what is going on. But when you seem to continue take in money and either not ship the material or ship out material that is broken or used and not stated as so.
I have had some dalings with steve when his store was open so good and some not so good. But the one consistant thing was that if anyone else was in the store. I never got a hello or anything else until the other customers were gone.
These are just my feelings on this subject and there is a forum for dealings with people and if ya feel you got screwed. Make sure you let it be known in there so either others who might possibly buy from him know what they are getting into. Thanks mike
hoodrat
New member
Im thinking the same thing grimm. Anytime I have thought about buying something used like everyone else the first thing that comes out of my mouth is "does it work". And I dont believe anyone is going to drop 350 bucks on something unless they were told yeah works great. So just another way to make a few quick bucks and hopefully be done with it deal.
If ya look at the original posters thread of the 3 people who wanted to buy 2 items all 3 were told to send money and none received a item that was in the description that was stated or if they even received it at all.
If ya look at the original posters thread of the 3 people who wanted to buy 2 items all 3 were told to send money and none received a item that was in the description that was stated or if they even received it at all.
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