Any progress on Cuttlefish in the USA?

[johnrags1234]

I emailed ancho fish. I got the same reply. Cephalopoder, would you mind if I emailed this part of ypur post to them?

The NRCC uses Magnesium Chloride to prevent inking in transit. They disolve 75 grams of MgCl2 in 1 liter of distilled water. They then mix the stock solution with sea water. For shipping cuttles over 3" they use a 10% (1/10) solution. For hatchlings and cuttles under 3" they cut back a little. They have also used trisma 8.2 buffer to control PH during shipment

When we emailed back and forth they asked if I knew of any better ways to ship. I told them some people 'scare' cephs so they ink before they get shipped. I also told them it probably wasnt a good idea because it caused further stress for the cuttles.

 

[OctoMonkey]

LOLLOLOLOLOL

dont scare them!!!!!!!

I went through about 10 - 12 buckets of water approx 1 gal per go trying to get one bloody 6inch male cuttle into a bag for transporting... it just keeps on coming!!!! I found that by not taking them out of the water helped a lot.. eg guid them into their bag using a net and dont lift them clear of the water

Richard Stride also bags and sends his cuttles under MgCl2

Whats the ideal habitat for a cattlefish Chris? Think a 180gal would fit one comfortably? LOL i have plenty grass in my garden will that do?

C

 

[cephalopoder]

Johnrags
Sure you can send the info, but I don't think it will do any good. Importers that ship hundreds of different species will not take the time to cater to one species. Its not worh the death rate this species encounters.
The main problem with cuttles from bali and that part of the world is cyanide use during collection. I have delt directly with CA importes of these animals and 0ver 90% die on arrival. Like Colin said, scarering cuttles will not work! That will only stress them out more and they hold tons of ink!
Colin the cattlefish Sepia.angus needs lots a sea grass to graze on. A 1000gallon tank is too small for this species

 

[johnrags1234]

-Colin the cattlefish Sepia.angus needs lots a sea grass to graze on. A 1000gallon tank is too small for this species- LOL

What species would normally come through Bali though? Wouldnt it be sepia bandesis, which is already a terrible choice for aquariums? It isnt realy worth it for them to carry sepia bandensis if they are so unhardy.

I didnt realy think scaring them was wise either, so I told them it isnt a good idea. I just wanted them to know that I had heard of this before.

With an animal that can change colors, ink, use jet propulsion, and morph textures, it probably isnt too easy to catch them with a net. This is unforunate though as these guys might be a lot hardier if they were net caught.

jgr

P.S Cephalopoder- seeing your sig line, have you read The Search for the Giant Squid by Ellis? It is an awesome book!

 

[OctoMonkey]

John

I think that the worse thing about importing s bandensis aside from them being fragile is that the fact that they also seem to be fully grown adults, bandensis is quite a small cuttle with perhaps only weeks to live regardless of how they were caught... so even mother nature is against us on that one.

I see S bandensis on livestock lists from bali almost monthly but have never once got them because of the trouble i know will come with them, plus i feel it is certainly quite cruel as many of them will be adults ready to breed.

In an aquarium S o. gets very tame quickly and is easy to catch, i used to hand feed mine and theyd swim into my open hand etc... but your right, i guess a wild one would be tricky to find and catch... My Sepia related project this year is going to be either Rossia macrosoma or Sepiola atlantica which ever i find first... hopefully they are another candidate for aquarium keeping...

Also John, if you visit Tonmo.com the science moderator is Dr Steve O'Shea who is still activly hunting the giant squid and is presently dissecting many mature speciems given to him that have been caught in fishing nets etc, he often provides many interesting updates!

C

 

[vegetell425]

i have had a cuttlefish since jan. 7th. she is on her way out soon because she is laying groups of eggs everywhere. ive been getting so much different info from everyone that it possiable the eggs could be fertiale and also that they cant. ive did some research and it sayed the male puts a packet of sperm in. my first group of eggs was a good bit ago and now she had two more groups with a total of 30 eggs or so. Should i cut open one of the first laid eggs to see if anything is going on. I know if it is then im killing one but it would greatly help me prepare for them if i knew if im going to have cuttlefish babys soon. so should i cut one egg open to see if anything is happing?

 

[cephalopoder]

I would leave the eggs alone and and just plan on getting as much food as you can. Take a look in the thread breeding O.bimaculoides. There is a picture of one weeks worth of food for hatchling cephs. Now multiply that by 12 weeks and thats what you will need to get these guys to make it. Now post some pics! If you have bandensis eggs you need to take some pics so it can be documented.

 

[johnrags1234]

wow vegetell this is realy exciting! Be sure to keep us updated

 

[wrasseman1]

hey sorry I did not get back earlier computer problems. Any way the reason I got my cuttle so cheap ($8.00) is that I work at my LFS and we trans-ship marines, so are prices are lower than if we went through a wholesaler. I still am no quite sure which spcies I have but do know that it seems very happy in its' 60 gallon tank eating all the ghost shrimp and guppies it wants. I would post pics but don't own a digital camera or scanner and have not figured out how to load pictures from a picture disc.( kinda lame huh) I will keep you all posted.:smokin:

 

[GeNeSISSIE]

Man oh man, I want to raise a cuttle so bad....

 

[BigLuke]

If cuttlefish are shipped and handled properly they do FINE in aquaria, so S. bandensis is not hard to keep .. it most likely is sensitive to shipping as evidenced by the fact that 99% of shippers in these 3rd world countries don't know how or don't have the capability, to ship them properly.

The main problem with cuttles from bali and that part of the world is cyanide use during collection. I have delt directly with CA importes of these animals and 0ver 90% die on arrival.

Hold on a second ... where is the EVIDENCE that cyanide is involved here? Please, don't perpetuate the myth that high shipping morts are due to cyanide use when improper shipping and handling are more than likely the cause. Cyanide is used WAY too often as a crutch to blame deaths on.

Time for a reality check here.

BigL

 

[OctoMonkey]

Its a well known fact that many of the 'unexplained' deaths that occur in the trade are due to cyanide catches. So it's not so much myth as reality. Fortunetly many people are refusing to buy from these collectors and that is through education. So far i have no evidence but after shipping stress it seems the most likely.

Keeping cephs as pets is still quite a recent thing as far as we are concerend and still considered quite bizarre by LFS's so there is still much for us to learn about how cephs are packed and shipped. Over the last three years I have only had one octopus DOA and one that dies within two days of arrival. Thats out of about 20 cephs.

i also think that shiiping is what causes the high rate of deaths.

A problem with saying that bandensis do FINE in aquaria is that most imported specimens are adult and therefore may only do fine until they die of old age 2 weeks later!

I dont think they seen ideal for the trade unless someone can captive breed them properly.

Colin

 

[cephalopoder]

The use of cyanide during collection for cephalopods is mentioned in the book "Realm of the Pygmy Seahorse"
by Constantinos Petrinos. This is a excellent book that covers the marine animal trade in indonesia.

 

[Gonodactylus]

Without testing, it is difficult to tell whether an animal that you just purchased died of cyanide poisoning, some other poison, stress from improper handling, disease, old age or some other cause. On the other hand, I've worked in Indondesia, have several colleagues who do research there, and there is no question that some collectors will use anything they can to get animals out of the reef or substrate. Sometimes this has little effect such as when they use vineger to collect octopus or clove oil to take fish (although in my experience clove oil and octopus don't mix). However more often than not they are using bleach or cyanide to collect fish and the invertebrates such crustaceans and cephalopods are a bycatch. No collector is going to pass up some easy change so if the animals survive to the purchase point, they are sold. If they don't, they are tossed.

From my experience with stomatopods, animals stress by improper shipping practices look to be in poor conditions from the point of arrival and don't recover. Animals that were exposed to cyandid act fine for a few days and then die. I have never purchased cuttles, so I don't know if they behave the same way, but I can tell you that blue-ringed octopus taken with cyanide do.

Roy