Any way to get away with not doing water changes?
- Thread starter whatnot45
- Start date
Not do -any- water changes? I think the only way to get to that point would be to not have anything in the aquarium. Even a goldfish bowl needs its water changed on occasion, if even infrequently. As noted above there are ways to minimize water changes, but as we can't replicate the entire system (for those systems design folks out there attempting to build a successful Biosphere II), there will always be something that builds up or is used up that will need to be removed or replaced.
Yes - using a Denitrator
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2381987
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2381987
Water Changes are not meant to only remove nitrates.
fishpureluck
Member
I'm not saying that it's smart to do it, but I had a life changing event that caused me to lose interest in just about everything, and I only did 1 water change for a whole year in my aussie SPS 220. Recently, the spark came back and I set up a 300 gallon peninsula last week. I planned on using everything salvageable "live stock and rocks" from the 220 to the 300. You couldn't see through the glass on the 220 it had so much coralline on it. I kept feeding the fish and my apex kept dosing, but that's about it for me taking care of it. To my surprise, not only were my small colonies "about 20 of them" healthy, they were 3 times the size. I tested my water, and it came back perfect "according to what an SPS should be". I guess that since I only had wrasses "not much feeding" and such a large sump "125g" full of plants, my water stayed great. No algae on my rocks and everything looked great. I ended up using 150 gallons of water and all of the rocks from that system, and another 200lbs of rock and 250'ish gallons of "new" water in the new tank. All of my corals showed great polyp extension and nothing has RTN'd or started to STN. So far so good. Even though I got lucky, I don't recommend it. I just set up an automated 50 gallon a month water change system to make it easy. On the new build, everything is pretty much automated. Change the water, you'll need to get rid of fish waste and left over food.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
stop doing water changes and consider yourself lucky for whatever survives!
That's what I've done in several situations.
Liverock and protein skimming are much more important in reducing nitrates IMO/IME
With liverock and protein skimming nitrates are rarely a major concern.
With no water exchanges, a more important concern would be the the skewing of water chemistry and the buildup of allelopathic compounds.
You'll end up with fish and a bunch of Kenya tree
Agree, but the OP ask to not have to do water changes all the time. Given the OP is in CA, I'm going to guess this is due to the water restrictions put into place (could be wrong). IMO, regular water changes are mostly to clean up organics and remove the nitrates, phosphate can be handled other ways and the other things with less frequent or smaller then normal water changes.
Not looking to debate the merits for or against, as there are many successful tanks running across the spectrum of no water changes to x% every week, to continuous every day.
You're going to have trace element problems. Those can be dosed, but if you read, eg, the regimen for preparing strontium for dosing, it's persuasive that water changes are easier than keeping all these bottles about. Some of these trace elements are also dangerous to have about in quantity if you have small children.
If I were forced to 'get along' with fewer changes, I'd recommend getting the best reef salt in terms of content. It would probably be easier to do no-changes with a softie or lps reef, because fish-onlies are a bit more poo-heavy, and and corals help sop that up, besides signaling somewhat to an observant owner that it might be time to run a 30/20 change---ie, 30% first day, two day rest, then 20%, which is what I personally recommend if someone has had a water quality problem.
If I were forced to 'get along' with fewer changes, I'd recommend getting the best reef salt in terms of content. It would probably be easier to do no-changes with a softie or lps reef, because fish-onlies are a bit more poo-heavy, and and corals help sop that up, besides signaling somewhat to an observant owner that it might be time to run a 30/20 change---ie, 30% first day, two day rest, then 20%, which is what I personally recommend if someone has had a water quality problem.
OP, what is your reasoning for wanting no water changes? If it's water conservation, you might consider one of the 2:1 or 1:1 RODI systems from Spectrapure. They might be a little pricey, but they would reduce waste from 4 gallons per gallon of RODI to 2 or 1 gallon of waste.
lifeoffaith
Member
Yes, forget a tank, go swim in the ocean.
reefwiser
New member
DSR http://www.dsrreefing.nl/
It is becoming more common in German and EU countries to not do water changes there are several method's. If you read German and dutch forums you will learn about the options.
It is becoming more common in German and EU countries to not do water changes there are several method's. If you read German and dutch forums you will learn about the options.
nanomania
New member
I dont know why people are somuch against no waterchange system.... im not very old to this hobby but not very new too... well many say a wc will add all the trace elements well we do wc with synthetic salts and not natural sea water... the traces can be added (seachem reef plus). A +1 size protien skimmer, biopellets, gfo and carbon... this filteration is enough for a good mixed reef tank... i always prefer pellet eating fishes only instead of the fishes where u need to add frozen food and yes also avoid nps corals... iv seen hundreds of tanks where they have never done a wc... even famous sally joe doesnt do wc.. the only time i believe u need a wc is when changing filter media or removing debris from bare bottom or adding new fish (acclimation). Though i dont prefer plenums or dsbs... i still feel that doing 10% monthly wc wud not hurt corals... i also prefer a seperate tank if u wana go for nps and frozen food eating fish... this is my opinion... and the growth part of fish by doing wc is i guess a myth... i know a a few ppl who have a 10 to 15yrs fowlr and the the fishes have grown full size with no deaths what so ever... yes i guess non filtered tank do need a wc once in 2 weeks... though im against non filtered tanks... atleast an ATS is a must in non filtered tank....
dkeller_nc
New member
If the OP's concern is water conservation (certainly makes sense in CA right now), here are some thoughts beyond what Sk8r and Breadman noted.
According to the San Jose water quality report (found here), the TDS of the water in the district is either quite hard (ca. 350 - 400ppm), or fairly soft in one sub-system (ca. 70 ppm).
In an RODI system, the minimum waste-to-product ratio is governed by the "hard water" ion concentration of the source water. Source water with a lot of calcium, manganese and sulfate can be concentrated at the RO membrane's surface to the point where the dissolved ion's solubility is exceeded, which results in precipitation on the membrane surface and fouling.
If your source water is fairly soft (<100 ppm TDS), you can generally get away with a 2:1 or even a 1:1 waste-to-product ratio without risking membrane fouling. All that's required in such circumstances is an adjustable waste valve; one simply measures the flowrate of the waste and product streams and adjusts the waste valve to get a 1:1 waste-to-product ratio.
In areas with hard water (>300 ppm TDS), one can still run a low waste-to-product ratio, but steps must be taken to remove fouling at the RO membrane's surface to preserve its efficiency. There are multiple ways to accomplish this; one's to set-up an auto-flush cycle that washes the RO membrane with source water at high flowrates every few minutes. That's what the SpectraPure ultra-high efficiency system does. Another is to add an anti-fouling chemical to the source water via a chemical metering pump; this is common in industrial systems, but fairly impractical for a hobbyist.
A third method is first pass the source water through a brine-regenerated water softener. These are just the standard units typically found in home stores; the unit removes the "hard water ions" (typically calcium and manganese) and replaces them with sodium. Because sodium has a very high solubility in water, the softened water won't foul an RO membrane, and the system can be run at very low waste-to-reject ratios. Many industrial systems are set up this way - the water goes through a brine-regenerated water softener before the RO unit, and the RO unit also contains an auto-flush apparatus. Systems like this can be operated to capture as much as 80% of the incoming water as purified product.
According to the San Jose water quality report (found here), the TDS of the water in the district is either quite hard (ca. 350 - 400ppm), or fairly soft in one sub-system (ca. 70 ppm).
In an RODI system, the minimum waste-to-product ratio is governed by the "hard water" ion concentration of the source water. Source water with a lot of calcium, manganese and sulfate can be concentrated at the RO membrane's surface to the point where the dissolved ion's solubility is exceeded, which results in precipitation on the membrane surface and fouling.
If your source water is fairly soft (<100 ppm TDS), you can generally get away with a 2:1 or even a 1:1 waste-to-product ratio without risking membrane fouling. All that's required in such circumstances is an adjustable waste valve; one simply measures the flowrate of the waste and product streams and adjusts the waste valve to get a 1:1 waste-to-product ratio.
In areas with hard water (>300 ppm TDS), one can still run a low waste-to-product ratio, but steps must be taken to remove fouling at the RO membrane's surface to preserve its efficiency. There are multiple ways to accomplish this; one's to set-up an auto-flush cycle that washes the RO membrane with source water at high flowrates every few minutes. That's what the SpectraPure ultra-high efficiency system does. Another is to add an anti-fouling chemical to the source water via a chemical metering pump; this is common in industrial systems, but fairly impractical for a hobbyist.
A third method is first pass the source water through a brine-regenerated water softener. These are just the standard units typically found in home stores; the unit removes the "hard water ions" (typically calcium and manganese) and replaces them with sodium. Because sodium has a very high solubility in water, the softened water won't foul an RO membrane, and the system can be run at very low waste-to-reject ratios. Many industrial systems are set up this way - the water goes through a brine-regenerated water softener before the RO unit, and the RO unit also contains an auto-flush apparatus. Systems like this can be operated to capture as much as 80% of the incoming water as purified product.
CStrickland
New member
Triton and GlennF seem better thought out than other methods. Triton being a bit more hands off, and DSR more control for the hobbyist. I think Glenn had a thread, but idk if he does anymore cause there was static about using the forum to sell stuff.
Coelli
New member
dkeller, thanks for that info - I buy my water from the LFS currently (10 salt / 10 RODI weekly). I won a really nice RODI system in a raffle a few months ago but never hooked it up because a) no time to figure it all out and b) we don't have landscaping to water, already let it all die off. Our source water is very hard and we've talked about getting a water softener for the house anyway. The info you provided is another incentive to get one; maybe I'll hook up the RODI system after that. So thanks again!
FirstContact
Active member
Learning to maintain our systems with less or no water changes can only be good for the long term life of the hobby. FWIW, I started vodka dosing a while ago, and haven't changed my water in almost five weeks this round.
laga77
New member
Just my .02. A tank is a closed system. Anything that goes in weather it is intentional or unintentional stays in the tank unless removed, excluding water and some other compounds like nitrogen gas, of course. Every time a speck of dust falls into the tank or you put your hand into it something is added. This leaves a bunch of leftovers and contaminates to buildup over time as water evaporates and is replaced. This process can only add to the stress that the animals have living in a glass box. Of course, the longer it goes on, the worst it gets. One of the best ways to reduce this stress is through water changes. There are a lot of variables that effect the quality of life of our animals. Changing the water is a simple and effective way to raise that quality.
