Anyone do this? Two 1/4 HP JBJ Chillers on a Red Sea MAX S-Series 500

[Reefomania]

We just installed the RedSea Max S-500 135 Gallon systems. It's a beauty but throws off a lot of heat. The main circulation pump in sump is running our UV, Chiller, skimmer and tank returns. We have BRS GFO and Carbon Reactors each with their own MJ1200 to manage flow rate and churn of media. Tank also comes with 3 inline very powerful closed loop circulation pumps running out of overflow. With all these pumps running and then lighting up the T5s you are about 10 -12 degrees above room temp! This baby runs hot!!! Unfortunately the tank is also in a sunroom that was much cooler in the winter The room today was 90 degrees and the tank could not get below 82 degrees. Now get this....We are running a JBJ 1/4 HP chiller. We love this unit but the specs say on 130 gallons it drops a tank up 20 degrees. So if we want to ensure that we can keep this tank at 77 (our preference) then we will need to take additional measures.

Instead of going up to a 1/3 HP here is our concept. We will put another 1/4 JBJ in-line with the initial JBJ. Both will be hooked up to an Apex Aqua controller. To keep a good steady temp curve that does not bounce around we plan on letting the controller run Chiller 1 as originally planned. However if the room heats up beyond the JBJ Chiller's 1 control then we deploy JBJ Chiller 2. We will use the following programming concept in the Apex controller. (I can post the actual script if anyone is interested after we deploy and test it) Chiller 1 turns on at 78 degrees and off at 77. Once turned on if Chiller 1 can't bring down the temp to 77 within 1 hour or the temp rises above 78.5 then Chiller 2 will be turned on until 77 degrees is reached. To be really slick about it we will use Chiller 1 as the main chiller on Mon, Wed, Fri and Chiller 2 as the Main on Tues, Thur, Sat, Sun. This way both chillers wear with commensurate amounts of operating time.

Is anyone interested in following this thread and seeing two 1/4 JBJ hooked up to RedSea Max 500 with Apex Controller operating in a hot room with potentially big swings in temp between summer and winter months? If so then chime in here we will post pics and document.

Please let us know if you have any experience with multiple chillers and how you handled it. We also feel if money is not an object (that's a neat concept) running then two 1/4's is better the one 1/2 for several reasons;

1. Redundancy for backup cooling. Not likely for both to break at same time.
2. Utilize less power until you need it, especially if you have a room with completely different temp curves in summer and winter.
3. Less Noise until you need both units running in together.

The bad
1. More piping, fittings and equipment to deal with in limited space. Luckily we have room behind the tank and in the basement directly underneath for this installation.
2. More complicated
3. More stuff to break

Would love your thoughts!

 

[danil]

You have mentioned all these equipment but fans. Do you have it? If not - that's your problem. Install it over your sump or tank or both and along with a chiller it should keep your water cool.

 

[mos90]

you cant put 2 chillers on the same line. the second chiller will not function properly.

personally i would either run 2- 1/4's on separate lines or 1- 1/2hp

 

[mos90]

let me edit that last statement. i guess it could work using the apex to control them. im not sure of the efficiency doing it that way.

 

[D-Nak]

My initial reaction is that it sounds extremely inefficient.

First, you don't need two MJ1200 to run your reactors. The BRS version is designed to run inline -- GFO first, then carbon. GFO needs to tumble so you set the powerhead to tumble it. Then it flows into the carbon with is packed in place, usually at the top of the chamber. All you need to do is force the water through it. All that said, I really don't think the components in the system are the problem. They're designed to run together so they shouldn't add a lot in terms of heat.

Second, I'm not understanding why your 1/4 HP can't handle the 130 gallon tank. The pulldown temp is for the tank water, not the ambient room temp.

Speaking of ambient room temp. You're fighting a losing battle having a tank in a 90 degree room. Have you considered getting an AC unit for the room instead? At least you can benefit from it as well. It doesn't matter if it's one chiller or two. If you drop the room temp down to 75, then you might not even need a chiller. Going back to what said about the components not adding a lot of heat, even with everything off, the tank will still try to rise to 90 degrees to match the temperature of the room.

Third, add fans as mentioned. The tank has an open top so fans pointing down at the water surface should help alot. The problem is that the air you're pulling in is starting at 90 degrees. But, the fans will encourage evaporation which naturally helps with cooling.

 

[ReachTheSky]

Speaking of ambient room temp. You're fighting a losing battle having a tank in a 90 degree room. Have you considered getting an AC unit for the room instead? At least you can benefit from it as well. It doesn't matter if it's one chiller or two. If you drop the room temp down to 75, then you might not even need a chiller. Going back to what said about the components not adding a lot of heat, even with everything off, the tank will still try to rise to 90 degrees to match the temperature of the room.

I agree with this idea. It requires considerably less energy to cool air than cool water. Getting an A/C unit for the room will save you tons of money in the long run.

 

[Reefomania]

Yes this was our big question. Should we put them together in-line or split the line and feed each one separately. I like the idea of feeding each one separately. The water flows through both at the same rate all the time and then the chiller(s) kick in when needed.

 

[Reefomania]

This room was going to be kept at 70 to 72 degrees but, when someone forgets to turn on the AC in the room or even worse if it breaks then what? When all said and done there is going to be $20K+ invested in corals in this tank. So an extra chiller is great security against user error or broken AC unit. Same reason we like generators or one of my favorites the Battery Back up from EcoTech.

Again, everything is working great as long as the room does not go above 80 degrees. At the end of the day, we sized the chiller right, but what do you do if you are in a room that has potential heat issues? If we went to the 1/3 I am afraid that it would be overkill when the room is at the right temp?

We were thinking about fans, but dislike how they look on top of the tank. Takes away from the high tech simplicity of this beautifully designed Red Sea system IMHO. I like the idea of a Fan in the sump area. Might give that a go.

 

[Reefomania]

D-NAK, Firstly I see your profile and big fan of your equipment. Nice selection. Do you have the battery backup for your MP40s? If not get them. Best thing we ever did!
Only question and not to get off topic but why supplement T5's with your Radions? Those babys dont need anything else. Don't know when you purchased them but Ecotech has updated the software for the lights which really help bring out the best in them. Give the company a call they will be happy to help you out. There customer service rocks. Post pics of your 120!!!

Thanks for your input on this post!!! There is an AC in the room. We are trying to figure out what to do in case someone like a cleaning lady turns it off or sets it at the wrong temp by accident or even worse it breaks. Its also quite a big room and although the residents can do it, it will definitely cost more to keep it below 80 when it is not being used versus executing more chiller horsepower. Its a 1,500 sq ft. room in 10,000 sq ft house in Connecticut. Wow, just realized, not very fair, shouldn't the fish have commensurate arrangements?

 

[dkeller_nc]

Hmm - Well, my first observation is that you really, really need to do some passive heat control of the room that the tank's in. Regardless of the redundancy of your chiller setup or even room ac, what happens if the power goes out for even an hour or two during the summer? If you've a whole-house backup generator that runs off of natural gas, you could probably ignore this as a problem, but most people don't have this sort of back-up power.

Passive heat gain control would be relatively straight-forward and inexpensive. The first step would be to install some exterior louvered sun shades on the glass so that the sun's angle doesn't allow light to directly enter the room during the summer, but does allow direct sun in the winter. The second step would be to install interior light-permeable shades on all of the interior glass surfaces. These shades maintain a relatively stagnant air layer between the glass and the fabric, and provide a large insulator without having to replace all of the glass with low-R triple pane windows.

As to your control scheme for your chillers, yes, it will work perfectly regardless of whether you plumb them in series or paralell so long as your primary temperature control point is a seperate thermocouple in your sump or main tank. To avoid a disaster from a malfunctioning temperature measurement device, I would add two and use the controller's scripting to compare the values from each. If they're within 2 degrees of each other, run the chillers normally. If they're not within 2 degrees of each other, run one chiller continuously and set an alarm flag (and notification).