Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[advancebc29]

I phrased that poorly:

I was thinking it would be beneficial to see a tank ran with LED's from "1st cycle" (with 1" SPS sticks) to a finished TOTM "worthy" maturity...
(TOTM meant as a comparison/adjective, not literally)

...that point about "missing spectrums" has been one one my concerns also,,, ...I still would love to see a good & comprehensive laymens chart/explanation of exactly what zoox's need spectrally anyway

This is a good start.

But also looking at the spectrum output of you current bulbs and comparing it to whatever light tech you want to move to is a good idea before jumping in

 

[nynick]

I wouldn't say best. The Cree models they have, all still use older gen Crees, and you don't know what bin they use.

The bridgelux/epistar models vary in quality as well. If you get one that uses a good bin however, you can achieve nearly 70% of the output of a Cree, at a much lower cost per led. You can make up the loss in intensity by adding more leds, like the 55 led ones have.

The Maxspect uses (mostly) newer gen XT-E leds, comes with a controller, leg bracket, and has a unique design. It is still something I may add over my 120 gallon in the future.

I wouldn't say that they are the best either but it seems they are better than a couple of the brand name "Industry leaders" and at a fraction of the price at that.

I looked at Orphek at first and they certainly seem very good. Was hard to find a lot of info on them though. Also the price can be a little scary if you are switching from MH/T5 for the first time and aren't sure how you will like it. I will certainly look again when my little cheapo setup is out dated enough.


Also must agree with a few posters here. Saying that you tried LED, didn't like them, went back to MH isn't very constructive. It is a pretty wide field to bunch up as just LED. A bit the same as bunching up MH, T5, VHO and your grandma's kitchen bulb as glass lamps.... tried glass, didn't like it, went back to LED. I had someone tell me how much he hated LED and how he would never go back to it.....turns out he had some strip he bought for 39 bucks....what a surprise!

 

[bhazard451]

I looked at Orphek at first and they certainly seem very good. Was hard to find a lot of info on them though. Also the price can be a little scary if you are switching from MH/T5 for the first time and aren't sure how you will like it. I will certainly look again when my little cheapo setup is out dated enough.

The Orphek was the biggest reason I wanted to look outside of the domestic market. The Orphek light is made in China, and uses very similar Bridgelux type leds that the cheaper Chinese ones use, providing the same lm/w. They just charge you a 350% markup for the privilege.

 

[nynick]

Bah, that is disappointing. Bhazard, did you happen to look into any of the multi chip versions? I really love the look they give but there seem to be so little info out there...then again I said that about the Orphek and you found it so....maybe you have a good link or two on pros and cons?

 

[bhazard451]

Bah, that is disappointing. Bhazard, did you happen to look into any of the multi chip versions? I really love the look they give but there seem to be so little info out there...then again I said that about the Orphek and you found it so....maybe you have a good link or two on pros and cons?

Until it is easier to manufacture multiple colors onto one chip, and to be able to control those colors separately, I prefer separate leds or 3ups instead. I'm not fond of 10w and 20w multichips myself, because I could place 3 Crees together closely and reach 12w easily with more light output.

They could eventually work extremely well. I could light my nano easily with 1 100w chip if it had blues, whites, violet, and possibly a row of other colors added in. It just isn't readily available yet.

 

[DownwardDawg]

This is a great thread. I think advancebc29 has nailed it. It's the spectrum issue. I really like LED's. I want the technology to continue to advance. I just couldn't quite put my finger on what was missing when I was trying to decide on my lighting. I wanted AI Sols, until I saw a tank that had them on it in person. I went back to wanting halides after that. Then, I got real excited about the Radions. The LFS near me put 3 over his display tank. They look "ok" but something just seemed to be missing. I finally chose Radium halides with T5 supplements.
I have an empty 75 gal tank and I'm thinking about building a DIY LED setup and trying it out. This thread has got me interested in trying it out.

 

[ReachTheSky]

My LFS has a very wide 800 gallon DT that he's been lighting with German Radium metal halide bulbs for years. Over the past few months, he's been conducting an experiment with LEDs. As of right now, half of his tank is lit by an array of Ecotech Radion's and and the other half with the same German Radiums. He has a web page dedicated to the experiment, complete with the setup details, photos, videos and so on.

Take a look:
http://www.vividaquariums.com/aquariumLightExperiment.asp

PS: I have seen this in person and he's correct - it is very difficult to tell the difference. Both sides of the tank look extremely similar.

 

[advancebc29]

My LFS has a very wide 800 gallon DT that he's been lighting with German Radium metal halide bulbs for years. Over the past few months, he's been conducting an experiment with LEDs. As of right now, half of his tank is lit by an array of Ecotech Radion's and and the other half with the same German Radiums. He has a web page dedicated to the experiment, complete with the setup details, photos, videos and so on.

Take a look:
http://www.vividaquariums.com/aquariumLightExperiment.asp

PS: I have seen this in person and he's correct - it is very difficult to tell the difference. Both sides of the tank look extremely similar.

Yes, This is a well known and documented experiment. I haven't looked at the spectrum of the halides being used but like most others my guess is they have a nice spike around 420nm which the radions are missing.

With the release of the new lens and the 4 open spots my guess is they will be bringing out an update to include something in the 420nm area sometime soon.

Now 420 is just part of the issue as more work is needed to be done to find out which of the spectrums added recently to LEDs is helping to keep the color. It could be the 420ish, 500ish, or the 660ish or a combo of them.

 

[Snausy]

Looking at that experiment it really just comes down to coral growth and health of the tank longterm. If the LED holds up in that area it's a no-brainer for so many reasons it would be tough to argue.

I'm thinking that the problem with leds for most people is they are getting the wrong ones or not able to dial the colors in correctly with what they bought. Not that it doesn't exist or can't happen. That experiment shows clearly that you can indeed dial the colors in to almost match the halides to the naked eye. You just didn't get the right optics, right colors, etc etc to do exactly what you wanted personally.

I understand if the led's you got don't look the way you wanted them to. It's why I'm so hesitant to get my own. I wish I could go see a bunch of different fixtures somewhere and pick what I wanted.

Bottom line it's very tough to argue against led tech when you can dial it in and get it to look the same as halides on the other half of the tank, shimmer and all. Assuming your corals like it of course. :beer:

 

[joefish]

LMAO on how nothing here (on reef Central)changes, No offense to any participants in this thread. This is what Reef Central is all about, comparing notes to come up with conclusions. With that said, why do we beat up lighting like it's the only important thing to corals? point blank if the par is there and your relatively close on spectrum's the corals will do just fine. I found that water quality and consistency of water quality is more important then the slight differences that are being discussed here.
personal I'm trying to get hard facts on these led lights to see the spectrums and see par #'s compared to MH's. I'm just getting back into the game form an extended brake and feel a little lost on the info on these LED lights. I go to the web sites and it's like smoke and mirrors with the cold hard facts and most discussions here are Like or hate them. If these light can come close to MH's with strenght and spectrum they should be considered a God send!!!

Continue on with the good work,
Joe:thumbsup:

 

[MedRed]

I suspect that people who start their tanks with LEDs have a better experience than most who have had T5 or MH. When switching to LEDS we have a difficult way of matching our previous lighting in color, intensity, spread....etc. We find some of our corals lose color, bleach, grow slower, or occasionally the opposite. I had similar issues when I switched from VHO to MH. Just as T5s may not be for some, MH and LEDs are not for others.
Personally, I prefer LEDs due to their energy savings, less heat, compact size, and shimmer. I like the color I have, but can see where others do not like the spotlighting, disco balling, lack of spread, etc.
I think most of us would benefit better if posters would just post why they like/dislike LEDs/T5/MH, rather than bash one in particular.

I started on LEDs... did it for a year and a half. Growth and color were ok... switching to MH+T5 was a big improvement.

 

[OneReef]

With that said, why do we beat up lighting like it's the only important thing to corals? point blank if the par is there and your relatively close on spectrum's the corals will do just fine. I found that water quality and consistency of water quality is more important then the slight differences that are being discussed

We all know that there are tons of things that go into keeping coral successfully other than lighting. But we are debating lighting here, not water quality. LEDs have tons of PAR, spectrum somewhat close, but it's not the same in the current fixtures on the market for LEDs and MHs. Yes, the coral may do "just fine" under LEDs, but there's a big difference in just fine, and optimal/maximum coloration that pleases our own eyes. I'm not trying to knock you, just pointing out that this is a lighting thread, debating the nuances in them. You are talking about water quality.

I've used LEDs for a year on a new tank, and MH for several years on other tanks, and I feel I have the experience to debate the "slight differences"

 

[joefish]

We all know that there are tons of things that go into keeping coral successfully other than lighting. But we are debating lighting here, not water quality. LEDs have tons of PAR, spectrum somewhat close, but it's not the same in the current fixtures on the market for LEDs and MHs. Yes, the coral may do "just fine" under LEDs, but there's a big difference in just fine, and optimal/maximum coloration that pleases our own eyes. I'm not trying to knock you, just pointing out that this is a lighting thread, debating the nuances in them. You are talking about water quality.

I've used LEDs for a year on a new tank, and MH for several years on other tanks, and I feel I have the experience to debate the "slight differences"

I've seen these discussions on lighting enough to know whats going on, bring #'s to the table otherwise its all hearsay! If the par is the same and the spectrums are close to the same then the results should be the same. corals dont care what the fixture looks like, or how much electricity you use. it cares that the lighting fits its needs and the water quality is stable and good. Oh and it also wants to be fed properly.
the debates on spectrums goes back way before LED's. the 65k 10k 20k debates go way back. BTW i Prefer 10 K MH with true actinic supplements. for the color that pleases my eye. and if led's can produce close to that, then colors and growth will flourish no matter the size of the source. and then we can qoute the double ended debates also. light is light if the qualitys of light is close.

 

[Adam G]

Love my AI Sol Blues. Have a 150g Miracles. Been doing this 17 years. Started with VHO's. Then metal halides and VHO's. Went LEDs on this build a year ago and am very pleased. Mostly SPS this time around. Still have a clam as well as some LPS. SPS is growing very well and color on them is great. All parameters are ideal and I monitor this very closely. Do 20% water changes weekly and really keep the chimistry as ideal as I can.

For me it is not so much max growth. I need practical. No chiller is key for me. Low electricity consumplion was secondary at first but I am really happy with the low electricity bills now that I see the reduction with the new set.

Not here to say that LED's are better than MH or T-5's. Just wanted to add that I am having success with them and am glad I made the switch.

 

[OneReef]

I've seen these discussions on lighting enough to know whats going on, bring #'s to the table otherwise its all hearsay! If the par is the same and the spectrums are close to the same then the results should be the same. corals dont care what the fixture looks like, or how much electricity you use. it cares that the lighting fits its needs and the water quality is stable and good. Oh and it also wants to be fed properly.
the debates on spectrums goes back way before LED's. the 65k 10k 20k debates go way back. BTW i Prefer 10 K MH with true actinic supplements. for the color that pleases my eye. and if led's can produce close to that, then colors and growth will flourish no matter the size of the source. and then we can qoute the double ended debates also. light is light if the qualitys of light is close.

There is no LED fixture for sale that does what you are saying. That's what these threads are about....

 

[Scottn29]

I don't think anyone is questioning whether LEDs can grow coral well or not, or whether you can keep some great looking corals under them. The question in my mind, as I have posted my experience with AI Sols and MH, is that while I did grow SPS under my LEDs and had some good colors on some Corals, it's whether or not LEDs can grow a full color spectrum of all SPS color rainbow like MH can. In my opinion, LEDs lack the ability at the current technology to grow ALL colors well without supplementation.

LEDs easily offer the best and widest customizable color spectrums. You can purchase way more colors then any other lighting source. I would bet that 80% of the people that switched from LEDs only had royals and whites, not full 'spectrum. I hated LEDs that only had rb/w. The other 20% didn't acclimate the tank right to the new light, just like a lot of halide users did years ago. Now I don't think I will ever go back.

led technology is advancing rapidly, I see halides being obsolete in a few years, they are replacing metal halide street lights around here with leds.

 

[James77]

led technology is advancing rapidly, I see halides being obsolete in a few years, they are replacing metal halide street lights around here with leds.

Halides will not be obsolete for quite some time, they are still the primary choice in industry lighting.

Yes, LED tech is advancing rapidly. In our hobby at least, the commercial fixtures are not "there" yet. Even the DIY crowd is still figuring it out, though I saw a layout in another thread tonight that had A LOT of different spectrums for the LEDs. Something like that will work most likely to reproduce the success of halides. How well these multiple spectrums will work is still many months off long term wise, and the commercial fixtures will follow soon after.

 

[James77]

You can purchase way more colors then any other lighting source. I would bet that 80% of the people that switched from LEDs only had royals and whites, not full 'spectrum..

This ability is pretty new. I did a DIY setup a little over a year ago. There were no 420 LEDs readily available. THE setup to have was CW and RB, as the AI sols have. The Sols were all the rage just a mere year ago, now their spectrum is lacking. I really did not mind the look of the LEDs I tried....they were lacking that "something" but I was actually surprised at the brightness and shimmer. Fill in what I saw with some actinic and a smidge of other colors....

 

[Freddie83]

I switched from LEDs to MH and have noticed a big difference...

 

[MedRed]

LEDs easily offer the best and widest customizable color spectrums. You can purchase way more colors then any other lighting source. I would bet that 80% of the people that switched from LEDs only had royals and whites, not full 'spectrum. I hated LEDs that only had rb/w. The other 20% didn't acclimate the tank right to the new light, just like a lot of halide users did years ago. Now I don't think I will ever go back.

led technology is advancing rapidly, I see halides being obsolete in a few years, they are replacing metal halide street lights around here with leds.

I had Sol Blues and then Radions. Maybe 420nm was the answer. I doubt it, but I'll be waiting to see. Others have added 420nm supplements to Sol Blues, Radions, and other fixtures and I don't see an improvement.