Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[sirreal63]

The wheel is a pretty much tapped out technology wise as well, yet I find I cannot live my life the way I expect to without the wheel. Being old and proven as the best currently available technology isn't a bad thing, if you think it is, try living without the wheel.

 

[ganjero]

I'm not willing to build a system using 18 different colored LEDs and then get a disco effect somewhere in the tank. I've seen dozens of tanks with LEDs and many tell me there is no disco effect. I spot it in seconds and I can never not see it after that. It is a curse.

I know what you mean, I have the same curse :lolspin:.

That's the fault of the fixture manufacturers trying to take a half truth to sell a product. A led can absolutely last 10 years and still put out ~70% of its original brightness. Go look at your hdtv if you need proof of that. Problem is, a fixture will become obsolete well before that. It is up to you, the buyer, to research the best option, not to have a company tell you.

From your bitterness, you can tell that Ecotech screwed you with a Gen1 Radion. You thought it would be the greatest thing ever because that's how they promoted it. You found out the hard way that it isn't the case.

I've adapted my led layout multiple times since I started using them, and they have gotten better each time. They now work just as well as my old MH/T5 setup, and this is over many months of tracking and growth watching.

If you want to be successful with leds right now, you have to be willing to adopt a DIY approach, otherwise MH/T5 is the best option. Us DIY users are the ones providing all the R&D to these companies. Half the time, they end up coming out with similar layouts a year later after DIY led users implement them. Watch how 430nm leds will start sneaking their way into fixtures.

I don't think it was the Radion. I have seen plenty of people happy with the Radion and feel that they are successful, it is just a matter of preference. For some the colors (corals and general appearance) under LEDs are not appealing.
IMO adding reds and greens and violets don't make a huge difference, I think is a marketing thing to attract people. Using the correct whites should give you a good spectrum. Violets are nice to accent certain colors but not a must. I have seen plenty of people happy and have success with just white and blue LED systems, but again it's just a matter of preference.
I love this setup (specially how high he has the LEDs) http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136083 but from the pictures I do not like the colors in general, I wish I could see in person but I still think I would not absolutely like the colors. I have also seen this kind of results from people using AI Sols (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2191242) and Radions (http://reefcentral.com/forums//showthread.php?t=2102745 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atR9qWTtr4g) but to me the looks are not very appealing only the controlability which is not necessary. The only LEDs that really get my attention right now are the multichip LEDs like Kessils.

I went back to MH and T5s for now....waiting to see more results from all the new fixtures and/or maybe a controllable Kessil

 

[JP Reef]

The wheel is a pretty much tapped out technology wise as well, yet I find I cannot live my life the way I expect to without the wheel. Being old and proven as the best currently available technology isn't a bad thing, if you think it is, try living without the wheel.

Just as I don't think lighting is tapped out, but certain ways to make it are. I like the joke, but you are basically equating that a shape is tapped out (not the case). I like triangles and squares too. I don't think I could live without them either.:lmao:

I don't see you with wooden tires on your car, or maybe you do. :hmm2:

 

[ganjero]

Just as I don't think lighting is tapped out, but certain ways to make it are. I like the joke, but you are basically equating that a shape is tapped out (not the case). I like triangles and squares too. I don't think I could live without them either.:lmao:

I don't see you with wooden tires on your car, or maybe you do. :hmm2:

I think you missed the point:

Being old and proven as the best currently available technology isn't a bad thing

 

[sirreal63]

Rubber has been used on the wheel for a little over 100 years, significantly longer then MH has been around. The point is simply that just because a technology has been around a long time, doesn't make it obsolete. I am very much in favor of LED's as well as Plasma, I almost went Plasma a few years ago and currently use LED's as supplements.

Over the years I have used regular T12's, T8's, PC's, VHO, T5, MH and LED (for supplements). Nothing has been the same for my corals as MH, the growth and coloration is fantastic, yet I was able to grow corals with every light I have used. I do believe that LED is the future, but am not convinced it is a direct replacement for MH or T5 yet. Too many people I know and trust have noticed coloration differences, and the inability to keep all corals, and once they went back to the outdated technology the corals improved. I have faith that the LED tech will catch up with more traditional light sources, but I haven't seen it yet.

 

[JP Reef]

I am not advocating switching lights for the sake of saying LED's are better. If your system is working than I wouldn't make the switch because it is the new thing on the market.

I use to have a MH light, and it worked for what I needed, but was always more interested in LED's for their life expectancy. I waited because I knew that the first lights on the market were lacking. I laughed when I saw all the new lights out with .5W and 1W led's claiming they could sustain a reef. Especially when you saw how many fixtures you would need to cover the tank.

I waited and I am happy with what I have now and won't be going back, but that is what everyone needs to decide on.

I still have a tank with T5's on it, and that is fine for what is in there, and I am not about to put down more money on a new fixture.

 

[shred5]

A metal halide or T5 bulb doesn't last 10 years either. Your point?

You can replace them you don't have to replace the whole fixture.. Most led fixtures you will need to know how to solder to replace leds.... LED technology is changing so fast the leds you use today is outdated and will be lucky to even find the right led tomorrow. I work in the lighting industry and he is right.. The light manufacturers are over diving the leds and were not intended for this use. There are lots of reports that fixtures are dropping in intensity like 30 percent in a year to 2 years.

 

[rrasco]

You can replace them you don't have to replace the whole fixture.. Most led fixtures you will need to know how to solder to replace leds.... LED technology is changing so fast the leds you use today is outdated and will be lucky to even find the right led tomorrow. I work in the lighting industry and he is right.. The light manufacturers are over diving the leds and were not intended for this use. There are lots of reports that fixtures are dropping in intensity like 30 percent in a year to 2 years.

Got a source for these reports? If they are over-driving them, of course they will shorten the life cycle. Soldering is easy if you need to replace a diode. In a hobby where we are forced to be biologists, plumbers, chemists, and electricians, learning to solder wouldn't be too much to ask.

 

[JP Reef]

You can replace them you don't have to replace the whole fixture.. Most led fixtures you will need to know how to solder to replace leds.... LED technology is changing so fast the leds you use today is outdated and will be lucky to even find the right led tomorrow. I work in the lighting industry and he is right.. The light manufacturers are over diving the leds and were not intended for this use. There are lots of reports that fixtures are dropping in intensity like 30 percent in a year to 2 years.

But what about spectrum? That is the bigger issue. I don't even have to run my LEDs at max power now.

 

[power boat jim]

You can replace them you don't have to replace the whole fixture.. Most led fixtures you will need to know how to solder to replace leds.... LED technology is changing so fast the leds you use today is outdated and will be lucky to even find the right led tomorrow. I work in the lighting industry and he is right.. The light manufacturers are over diving the leds and were not intended for this use. There are lots of reports that fixtures are dropping in intensity like 30 percent in a year to 2 years.

I have no doubt that there are fixtures out there that are doing this. However I just had the PAR on mine measured and there has been no noticeable drop in 20 months. Is it possible that this is where ''you get what ya pay for" starts to apply. People say the AIs and others are overpriced. Maybe there is a reason they cost more. I really dont know.

I have no delusion they will last forever but maybe the advertised lifespan on the more expensive units may turn out to be a reality.

 

[cleanmyaquarium]

I have been using LED's for two years and have not experienced a drop in intensity. I used to be sceptical and only advocate halides, but I have changed my tune. I have seen better growth from SPS and a big drop in electricity usage...not only are they more efficient, but the chiller doesn't run as well.

 

[hypnoj]

I have been using LED's for two years and have not experienced a drop in intensity. I used to be sceptical and only advocate halides, but I have changed my tune. I have seen better growth from SPS and a big drop in electricity usage...not only are they more efficient, but the chiller doesn't run as well.

which LED's are you using?

 

[James77]

I have been using LED's for two years and have not experienced a drop in intensity. I used to be sceptical and only advocate halides, but I have changed my tune. I have seen better growth from SPS and a big drop in electricity usage...not only are they more efficient, but the chiller doesn't run as well.

Any before and after pics?

 

[chadfarmer]

Any before and after pics?

Yep

 

[NaH2Ofreak]

Where are they?

 

[BrooksReef]

I'll be making the switch back to 2 x 250w MH from LEDs on my new 135g... I'm so excited. Ha

 

[James77]

I'll be making the switch back to 2 x 250w MH from LEDs on my new 135g... I'm so excited. Ha

What's your reasons?

 

[Slawdude]

I have been slogging away with LED for the last three years. Previously running a couple of 250w MH and T5s and before that some 150w MH. Before that there werent any aquarium lights and the tank was near the window :rollface:

I am not convinced that LED is there yet. Seems to work for some species, not for others. Most of my corals used to thrive under MH and I have not achieved the same success under LED.

My new setup is with solartubes and I will supplement with LED but for colour and viewing only. I am hoping the sun will bring the thrive back.

 

[nynick]

LED is available in every color temperature and every strength we could ever want so it is "there". As long as you get the right amount and the right spectrum the end result is identical with MH, T5 and LED....or a big enough candle that burns at the right color.

Whenever I read these discussions I always get the feeling that some people think that LEDs produce LED light and MHs produce MH light. They don't. It is only telling us how the light was made, the end result is the same.

 

[hypnoj]

remember. It's not that LED's aren't "there", but if they are so unpredictable that most reefers end up melting there corals, or getting headaches from the "disco ball" effect, or or or.. then really, they aren't "there" yet. They're just a huge source of frustration and expense on most reefers. I would like to ask. When's the last time that there were huge changes in MH's? (besides reflectors) MH's have not changed in years and years. Why? Because they are "there". Why are all LED manufactures coming out with new and different set ups every year? Because they themselves haven't figured out what the perfect solution is yet.
I've purchased LED's for the second time to see if I can make a go of it. But I've certainly made sure it's a set up that can be changed and manipulated in every way possible this time because I know LED's things are still a' changin.