Apogon leptacanthus - Breeding Log
- Thread starter mwp
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mwp
In Memoriam
FWIW, just got back and while the plankton dosing system basically "failed", we still have PLENTY of larvae and they some have grown truly significantly...they're starting to look laterally compressed!
I may post some updates and pics tonight...we'll see whether I fall asleep beforehand or not!
Matt
I may post some updates and pics tonight...we'll see whether I fall asleep beforehand or not!
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
We're just shy of 11 days (263 hours post release), probably 30+ larvae running around. I sat down with one of the larger ones and shot some pix and vid under the QX5. Things are looking pretty darn good so far...I would be THRILLED to have a bunch of little dime sized Apogon leptacanthus running around in a couple month's time!
mwp
In Memoriam
BrianPlankis
Premium Member
Matt,
Great picture work!! FYI...your Apogon mating video was used by Dr. Frank Marini in his presentation at MACNA. You have hit the big time
Congrats!
Brian
Great picture work!! FYI...your Apogon mating video was used by Dr. Frank Marini in his presentation at MACNA. You have hit the big time
Congrats!Brian
BrianPlankis
Premium Member
Matt,
It showed the transfer of the sperm from the male to the female, something that happened in like 1/28 of a second or something like that. It was FAST...personally I couldn't see it, but I'll take your word and Dr Marini's word
It was cool to be sitting there watching it and thinking, hey I've talked with that guy! Well, on this forum anyway
Brian
It showed the transfer of the sperm from the male to the female, something that happened in like 1/28 of a second or something like that. It was FAST...personally I couldn't see it, but I'll take your word and Dr Marini's word
It was cool to be sitting there watching it and thinking, hey I've talked with that guy! Well, on this forum anyway
Brian
BrianPlankis
Premium Member
Matt,
Well, I've started my own breeding project. Nothing as glamorous as fish, but I just had a cowrie snail lay a bunch of eggs and they are hatching. I've setup a quick and dirty hatchery, could you take a look at this thread and let me know if you have any advice?
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=341&posted=1#post341
Brian
Well, I've started my own breeding project. Nothing as glamorous as fish, but I just had a cowrie snail lay a bunch of eggs and they are hatching. I've setup a quick and dirty hatchery, could you take a look at this thread and let me know if you have any advice?
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=341&posted=1#post341
Brian
mwp
In Memoriam
OK, so this evening 1 gallon of new saltwater was added to the tank...over the course of the day roughly 1.5 L of mixed phyto slowly dripped in as well.
The larvae are FAT and active! We have a new development - the largest larvae now have FULL caudal fins! It's a joy to watch these little cardinalfish move from rotifer to rotifer, carefully examining each one and then deciding to either pass on or NAIL the sucker!
I sat down this evening and took some more QX5 pics - we're just shy of 12 days post release now, 287 hours to be exact. When I placed this larvae back into the tank, it simply sank to the bottom and appears to have died. Knowing this, I may decide to forego pictures on a daily basis, instead shooting maybe every 2-3 days...if I shoot every day and they keep dying soon enough I won't have any larvae left!
Here they are - enjoy!
Tomorrow I may undertake a water change. I may also have some newly hatched brine nauplii and *MAY* try feeding some to the cardinalfish...I think the largest ones are definitely large enough to handle them but I'm also worried about chokings, intestinal blockages etc...so far rotifers are doing well, so I KNOW I will be doing another feeding of enriched L-Strain in the morning...gotta get those HUFA's into the larvae whenever I get an opportunity!
I definitely don't want to jinx it, but I'm starting to think about what these guys may look like in another few weeks! This is by far the most promising batch of any fish larvae I've had to date. I may decide to let our first clownfish spawn go unreared...don't want to create ANY problems for the cardinalfish. BTW, on the "co-rearing" note...I haven't been able to find our last baby mandarin...he may have passed on.
Matt
The larvae are FAT and active! We have a new development - the largest larvae now have FULL caudal fins! It's a joy to watch these little cardinalfish move from rotifer to rotifer, carefully examining each one and then deciding to either pass on or NAIL the sucker!
I sat down this evening and took some more QX5 pics - we're just shy of 12 days post release now, 287 hours to be exact. When I placed this larvae back into the tank, it simply sank to the bottom and appears to have died. Knowing this, I may decide to forego pictures on a daily basis, instead shooting maybe every 2-3 days...if I shoot every day and they keep dying soon enough I won't have any larvae left!
Here they are - enjoy!
Tomorrow I may undertake a water change. I may also have some newly hatched brine nauplii and *MAY* try feeding some to the cardinalfish...I think the largest ones are definitely large enough to handle them but I'm also worried about chokings, intestinal blockages etc...so far rotifers are doing well, so I KNOW I will be doing another feeding of enriched L-Strain in the morning...gotta get those HUFA's into the larvae whenever I get an opportunity!
I definitely don't want to jinx it, but I'm starting to think about what these guys may look like in another few weeks! This is by far the most promising batch of any fish larvae I've had to date. I may decide to let our first clownfish spawn go unreared...don't want to create ANY problems for the cardinalfish. BTW, on the "co-rearing" note...I haven't been able to find our last baby mandarin...he may have passed on.
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Brian, NONE of my larval rearings, whether vertebrate or otherwise, have ultimately yeilded ideal results, so I'm not sure I have anything to suggest other than to keep tinkering! I'm counting my blessings with the Apogon leptacanthus larvae (and the cracking of the mandarin hatching mystery)...Cowries...very cool all the same! I assume it's a cowry sp. that eats algae? Put me on the list!
Back to the cardinals, I had one other observation I forgot to record. Well 2 actually - the larvae appear to be slightly positively phototropic now...when I placed a flashlight at the bottom near a larvae it swam straight to the bottom, bashing into the bottom apparently trying to get to the light...it twisted and turned and continued to ram the bottom. Took the light away and within seconds it was swimming normally again. MOST of the larvae are now in the upper water column directly underneath the flourescent light.
The other observation is in development - the larger larvae are now definitely laterally compressed except for their fat round bellies. They're starting to look a bit less like random fish larvae and a bit more like clear, compressed cardinalfish (of course, you can see for yourself in the pics above).
I'm off to bed!
Matt
Back to the cardinals, I had one other observation I forgot to record. Well 2 actually - the larvae appear to be slightly positively phototropic now...when I placed a flashlight at the bottom near a larvae it swam straight to the bottom, bashing into the bottom apparently trying to get to the light...it twisted and turned and continued to ram the bottom. Took the light away and within seconds it was swimming normally again. MOST of the larvae are now in the upper water column directly underneath the flourescent light.
The other observation is in development - the larger larvae are now definitely laterally compressed except for their fat round bellies. They're starting to look a bit less like random fish larvae and a bit more like clear, compressed cardinalfish (of course, you can see for yourself in the pics above).
I'm off to bed!
Matt
BrianPlankis
Premium Member
Matt,
Actually, I have no idea what it eats
I just received the adult on Saturday and the eggs hatched last night/this morning. I'm going to do some feeding trials on the adult while I try to raise the larvae. It is more of an attempt to raise the larvae and learn from my mistakes than anything else. I doubt I'll succeed on my second attempt to raise larvae (my first attempt was a nudibranch and that didn't go well), but I had the opportunity to try, so I took it.Brian
I think it is wise to let the first few nests of clownfish go. Papa clown is just learning his duties, and I have heard that the first few nests are not that productive.
Even after the big move, the nests of my pair have not been too large or well made, and they just ate the first one. The next nest hatched, but I missed the larvae. Then I messed with the tank, they moved their nesting site. I can't see the present nest, so I am not sure.
Even after the big move, the nests of my pair have not been too large or well made, and they just ate the first one. The next nest hatched, but I missed the larvae. Then I messed with the tank, they moved their nesting site. I can't see the present nest, so I am not sure.
mwp
In Memoriam
Thanks for the input guys!
Just another update - the leptacanthus larvae are still doing well
They received another dosing of Selcon enriched L-Strain rotifers just now, and are getting another 1 gallon addition of clean saltwater dripped in. In general, it seems that the larvae are keeping the rotifer population in check if not actually now outpacing it...the water is staying green vs. getting cleared out by the rots.
There is DEFINITELY a size range now, with some of the larvae being almost double the mass of the smaller ones. SOME of the larvae appear to have learned to feed on the benthic copepods living on the glass...it could be that those feeding on copes + rots are the ones getting the big growth boost...just a working theory anyways.
FWIW,
Matt
Just another update - the leptacanthus larvae are still doing well
They received another dosing of Selcon enriched L-Strain rotifers just now, and are getting another 1 gallon addition of clean saltwater dripped in. In general, it seems that the larvae are keeping the rotifer population in check if not actually now outpacing it...the water is staying green vs. getting cleared out by the rots.There is DEFINITELY a size range now, with some of the larvae being almost double the mass of the smaller ones. SOME of the larvae appear to have learned to feed on the benthic copepods living on the glass...it could be that those feeding on copes + rots are the ones getting the big growth boost...just a working theory anyways.
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Yeah, I'm with ya Luis! I think all the BBS I have going at this point is going to be fed to the brood tanks...I'm just thinking they're not ready yet. And heck, didn't you raise that damsel on rotifers alone? It can be done!
BTW, if successful in rearing these to saleable size, I made a promise to Renee that the parents would be sold (she really dislikes the look of the species). My only motivation is maybe with the Glass cardinals gone the bangaiis will actually hold a brood to term (Renee would probably enjoy baby bangaii's a whole lot more too). So...folks who are reading this...there may be a proven rev. trio of these available for sale in a couple months....
Matt
BTW, if successful in rearing these to saleable size, I made a promise to Renee that the parents would be sold (she really dislikes the look of the species). My only motivation is maybe with the Glass cardinals gone the bangaiis will actually hold a brood to term (Renee would probably enjoy baby bangaii's a whole lot more too). So...folks who are reading this...there may be a proven rev. trio of these available for sale in a couple months....
Matt
Luis A M
Premium Member
Sure,but cardinals won´t take prepared foods,so at some time you must go the bs way,ideally after metam.
I´m not saying bs will kill them,but just don´t gamble with your 1st batch.One needs to see juvies sometimes!
And am I wrong or this could be a 1st time for this species?:eek2:
mwp
In Memoriam
Luis, as far as I know, I've never seen ANYONE rear A. leptacanthus, so yes, this would be a first.
I'll restrain myself on the BBS for now. I'm really not sure what "metamorphasis" / "settlement" is going to look like with these guys because they'll be CLEAR for the most part anyways! They're starting to look like little mini's already with their huge mouth and laterally compressed bodies. Granted, they don't appear to have dorsal, anal and ventral fins yet!
BTW, I upped the amount of fresh saltwater being added to 2 gallons..I needed to free up my mixing bucket to do water changes
Matt
I'll restrain myself on the BBS for now. I'm really not sure what "metamorphasis" / "settlement" is going to look like with these guys because they'll be CLEAR for the most part anyways! They're starting to look like little mini's already with their huge mouth and laterally compressed bodies. Granted, they don't appear to have dorsal, anal and ventral fins yet!
BTW, I upped the amount of fresh saltwater being added to 2 gallons..I needed to free up my mixing bucket to do water changes
Matt
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