Apogon leptacanthus - Breeding Log
- Thread starter mwp
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mwp
In Memoriam
I forgot to mention that the schooling behavior has increased...most of the time 90% of the larvae are facing the same direction and travel as a pack...maybe a 3" cube roughly of larvae that slowly travels around the tank....they all move as a rough unit away from any disturbance, and come to the glass if I sit down in front of the tank, checking me out before going about their business.
It's also worth mentioning that I THINK most all of the rotifers in the tank are SS Strain rotifers...it would appear that the larger L Strain have been stripped out of the tank! I've harvested a bunch of L Strain and Tiggerpods and am currently selcon enriching..they'll probably be ready in an hour or two and will be added...of course I'll be watching for feeding responses.
FWIW,
Matt
It's also worth mentioning that I THINK most all of the rotifers in the tank are SS Strain rotifers...it would appear that the larger L Strain have been stripped out of the tank! I've harvested a bunch of L Strain and Tiggerpods and am currently selcon enriching..they'll probably be ready in an hour or two and will be added...of course I'll be watching for feeding responses.
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Well, I don't know exactly how long this has been going on, but I can safely say that the Leptacanthus larvae are very willing to consume the tiggerpods that as they swim in the water column. I added in the enriched rotifer/copepod mix and within minutes the larvae were actively feeding.
It looks like they're selecting the "sub adult" stages, but not the full adults. Others were all too quick to attack the L-Strain rotifers, so I think my "suspicions" that the established L-Strain had been consumed may have just been confirmed as well. I should have some fresh brine nauplii this evening...I'm pretty sure those will get consumed quickly as well!
Matt
It looks like they're selecting the "sub adult" stages, but not the full adults. Others were all too quick to attack the L-Strain rotifers, so I think my "suspicions" that the established L-Strain had been consumed may have just been confirmed as well. I should have some fresh brine nauplii this evening...I'm pretty sure those will get consumed quickly as well!
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Somewhere in some thread (I think the mandarin thread AND in the Live Food Culture Sticky Thread) I've placed some scope pics comparing the two strains. SS is significantly smaller than L...you can literally visually notice the difference side by side.
I know, I gotta empty out my PM's again!
FWIW,
Matt
I know, I gotta empty out my PM's again!
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
4:00 PM - I harvested some newly hatched brine, rinsed it, soaked it with selcon briefly, rinsed it again, and placed it in the tank. The cardinalfish had a lukewarm feeding response. So, these little cardinals ARE eating the BBS, but not with any significant gusto. They LOOK a lot more than they strike.
They show significantly more interest in the Tiggerpods that are maybe 2X the mass of newly hatched BBS. The little cardinalfish even swim SIDEWAYS, circling around the pods, following them with interest, until finally striking.
So there we go...it's safe to say that we're well on our way...the next hurdle will be to get them onto brine nauplii with gusto, then onto frozen foods, and hopefully somewhere along the way we'll see true "Settlement" of these larvae, however in some respects I think that might have already occured in so much as they school and stay in the bottom 1/3 of the tank...hmm.
Matt
They show significantly more interest in the Tiggerpods that are maybe 2X the mass of newly hatched BBS. The little cardinalfish even swim SIDEWAYS, circling around the pods, following them with interest, until finally striking.
So there we go...it's safe to say that we're well on our way...the next hurdle will be to get them onto brine nauplii with gusto, then onto frozen foods, and hopefully somewhere along the way we'll see true "Settlement" of these larvae, however in some respects I think that might have already occured in so much as they school and stay in the bottom 1/3 of the tank...hmm.
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
5:30 - added in a "healthy" portion of BBS after briefly soaking with selcon. Feeding response was more dramatic and it appears that larvae had been feeding on the first dosing of BBS from earlier as their bellies were more distended.
As of MIDNIGHT, the cardinalfish larvae are all pretty much fat, active and happy, many with little fecal trails from their feeding on the nauplii. It's official - 26 days post release!. I may sit down and sacrifice a larvae for photography...there's been some pretty substantial growth and it seems a large percentage of larvae now have ventral fins.
FWIW,
Matt
As of MIDNIGHT, the cardinalfish larvae are all pretty much fat, active and happy, many with little fecal trails from their feeding on the nauplii. It's official - 26 days post release!. I may sit down and sacrifice a larvae for photography...there's been some pretty substantial growth and it seems a large percentage of larvae now have ventral fins.
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Just some more updates...I added in 1L of Freshly Harvested Tetraselmis to the phyto drip. Additionally, after midnight I added 1 ML Selcon to the remaining BBS and around 8:30 AM this morning harvested these BBS (hopefully Instar II at this point) and added them to the larval tank.
It appears there are THREE cardinalfish larvae that have "slack jaws"...basically their mouths appear to be gaping open, yet I've seen these guys still feeding. Not sure if there's just something "stuck", if this is a genetic or nutritional defect etc. Along these lines we also still have 1 RUNT who is extremely tiny compared to the rest of it's kin.
I was thinking of pulling a larvae this evening to do an update series of pictures...it's been 10 days since the last ones now. I'll probably risk one of the "deformed, slack jawed" larvae...if there were HUNDREDS of them around I probably would've culled them, but considering we're still hovering at only 20-25 larvae, I'm not going to risk a completely healthy one for pictures at this point.
FWIW,
Matt
It appears there are THREE cardinalfish larvae that have "slack jaws"...basically their mouths appear to be gaping open, yet I've seen these guys still feeding. Not sure if there's just something "stuck", if this is a genetic or nutritional defect etc. Along these lines we also still have 1 RUNT who is extremely tiny compared to the rest of it's kin.
I was thinking of pulling a larvae this evening to do an update series of pictures...it's been 10 days since the last ones now. I'll probably risk one of the "deformed, slack jawed" larvae...if there were HUNDREDS of them around I probably would've culled them, but considering we're still hovering at only 20-25 larvae, I'm not going to risk a completely healthy one for pictures at this point.
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Ok, another round of updates with PICS and VIDS! Our internet is FINALLY back on!
On 10-10-06:
10:40 PM- removed the clownfish larvae from the larval tank in prep for another much larger hatch of clowns.
11:45 PM - Leptacanthus - shot pics of an average sized larvae, one of the "slack jawed" specimens. If the math is right, 647 hours post release, basically 27 days. Larvae went back in stressed but not dead...observation at 12:35 suggests it may still be alive (no bodies around, think I found it in the pack).
10-11-06
12:25 a - siphoning in 2 gallons of clean saltwater for larval tank.
11:00 AM - drained out 2 gallons, seived rotifers and BBS for enrichment (to feed clownfish in breeder net), disposed of water.
12:15 - Another 2 gallons has now been seived, is being enriched, water returned to larval tank.
And that brings me to now, we're at 27.5 days post release!. I have another round of brine eggs due to hatch this evening...the BBS that remain may have gotten too large now for the little leptacanthus!
The next couple posts will be a series of pics and vids shout an hour before 27 days of age.
MP
On 10-10-06:
10:40 PM- removed the clownfish larvae from the larval tank in prep for another much larger hatch of clowns.
11:45 PM - Leptacanthus - shot pics of an average sized larvae, one of the "slack jawed" specimens. If the math is right, 647 hours post release, basically 27 days. Larvae went back in stressed but not dead...observation at 12:35 suggests it may still be alive (no bodies around, think I found it in the pack).
10-11-06
12:25 a - siphoning in 2 gallons of clean saltwater for larval tank.
11:00 AM - drained out 2 gallons, seived rotifers and BBS for enrichment (to feed clownfish in breeder net), disposed of water.
12:15 - Another 2 gallons has now been seived, is being enriched, water returned to larval tank.
And that brings me to now, we're at 27.5 days post release!. I have another round of brine eggs due to hatch this evening...the BBS that remain may have gotten too large now for the little leptacanthus!
The next couple posts will be a series of pics and vids shout an hour before 27 days of age.
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
HMM...actually Luis their tails have been like that for a while now...the last fins to show up are the ventral pair. Considering how much smaller they start than something like a clown, I'd say they're growing by leaps and bounds!!! I'm doing my best with the BBS & Enrichment - added back in selcon enriched rotifers & Instar II (or higher) BBS that I sieved out of 2 gallons earlier today. It seems what I'm doing is working...I'm sure things could go better/faster but hey, I don't know that anyone's raised this species to a saleable size yet, so I don't have any records to go by!
Matt
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Another feeding of freshly hatched brine nauplii went into the tank at 7:45 this evening. It appears the fish took to it pretty quickly. Not "enriched" 'cause there's no gut on these newly hatched nauplii yet - all of the phyto drip has filled the tank, so there's plenty in there for the BBS to consume as soon as they can.
FWIW,
Matt
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Ok, but basically then all we need to do is a quick "rinsing" of them in our hufa enrichment? I've not been able to locate any info on properly enriching nauplii...not even in the Phytoplankton Culture Manual (which suggests enriching for 24 hours post hatch, thus through the first molt, before feeding).
I'm definitely not "foregoing" enrichment altogether, there are still phyto enriched rotifers everywhere, I'm still maintaining my phyto drip, and as per earlier today, I'm still sieving the tank zooplankton periodically for enrichment with Selcon. I also pulled the remaining nauplii from tonight's hatch, placed them in the fridge with a few drops of Selcon...they'll be the food for tomorrow while the next BBS hatchery is going.
FWIW,
Matt
I'm definitely not "foregoing" enrichment altogether, there are still phyto enriched rotifers everywhere, I'm still maintaining my phyto drip, and as per earlier today, I'm still sieving the tank zooplankton periodically for enrichment with Selcon. I also pulled the remaining nauplii from tonight's hatch, placed them in the fridge with a few drops of Selcon...they'll be the food for tomorrow while the next BBS hatchery is going.
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Sad note...we lost two leptacanthus larvae this evening...not sure why at this point in time. Will be doing a water change to be safe, that's for sure! Also will then be starting the phyto drip with 1L T-Iso and 1L Nanno. A couple hundred clownfish larvae are coming on board too...lots of changes going on in the tank today.
Matt
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
OK, so some shots of the dead...while I'm a bit perplexed I have some working theories. There is also some upsides to this (as long as I don't lose ALL of them!).
I'm thinking 2 things. 1 - BBS. You may note that a few hours back I gave them a new feeding of newly hatched brine shrimp. I only work with DECAPPED brine from SHS, so I think the stuff is pretty clean. What I THINK has occured is some overzealous eating...i.e. the bellies are VERY distended.
2. Metamorphosis is starting. These are on the "larger" side, approximately 9 MM. Some of the largest larvae are starting to get "TALL" today, basically starting to get less of a "generic" shape to them and looking more like a cardinalfish. Perhaps we're simply going to lose some at this stage, as happens with so many other fish species grow outs.
It is important to note that neither of these are "gapers"...I have at least 2, maybe 3 larvae that appear unable / unwilling to shut their mouths! So far I've taken it as a defect or sign of disease, unsure which. But these two appear to be fish I would've considered otherwise HEALTHY prior to death. I did not notice any unusual activity...just happened to look at the tank floor and notice them.
The main observation, besides being able to get an accurate read on size (9 MM or just shy of it) is that there are all these little worms crawling all over them. I wonder what possible benefit these could have if cultured when it comes to larval rearing. No doubt there are MANY of them established in the tank, and judging by their gut color they are feeding on phyto/debris.
Anyways, here are the pics..sorry they're pics of DEAD fish instead of live. Basically 28 days post release (671 hours to be precise)
I already have the first 2 gallons being drawn out (and will be seiving / enriching for the juvie clowns). I'll then go one more gallon, a bottom cleaning. Will post any more work / updates / observations later this evening. That's the best I can hope for...
FWIW,
Matt
I'm thinking 2 things. 1 - BBS. You may note that a few hours back I gave them a new feeding of newly hatched brine shrimp. I only work with DECAPPED brine from SHS, so I think the stuff is pretty clean. What I THINK has occured is some overzealous eating...i.e. the bellies are VERY distended.
2. Metamorphosis is starting. These are on the "larger" side, approximately 9 MM. Some of the largest larvae are starting to get "TALL" today, basically starting to get less of a "generic" shape to them and looking more like a cardinalfish. Perhaps we're simply going to lose some at this stage, as happens with so many other fish species grow outs.
It is important to note that neither of these are "gapers"...I have at least 2, maybe 3 larvae that appear unable / unwilling to shut their mouths! So far I've taken it as a defect or sign of disease, unsure which. But these two appear to be fish I would've considered otherwise HEALTHY prior to death. I did not notice any unusual activity...just happened to look at the tank floor and notice them.
The main observation, besides being able to get an accurate read on size (9 MM or just shy of it) is that there are all these little worms crawling all over them. I wonder what possible benefit these could have if cultured when it comes to larval rearing. No doubt there are MANY of them established in the tank, and judging by their gut color they are feeding on phyto/debris.
Anyways, here are the pics..sorry they're pics of DEAD fish instead of live. Basically 28 days post release (671 hours to be precise)
I already have the first 2 gallons being drawn out (and will be seiving / enriching for the juvie clowns). I'll then go one more gallon, a bottom cleaning. Will post any more work / updates / observations later this evening. That's the best I can hope for...
FWIW,
Matt
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