Apogon leptacanthus - Breeding Log

[mwp]

OK, total volume of water removed only added up to 2 gallons...got the main larger chunks of gunk off the bottom. 2 clean gallons are going in. Clownfish larvae went in. I've started up the phyto on a very slow drip (drop every 2-3 seconds). ALSO, just in case, I've done a 1/2 tsp dosing of each part of the 2 part Tropic Science Marine Max formula (1 part is Antioxidant, the 2nd part is Probiotic bacteria). I've found Marine Max to be useful in cases where a bit of ICH shows up on a fish, or when a bit of fungus or bacterial infection appears due to damage (i.e. earlier on when our pair of percs would beat the crap out of each other). I figure in the odd event that the little deaths of the 2 leptacanthus are in any way disease related, it's better to be safe than sorry. I've not seen any negative impacts of using Marine Max, so I'm pretty confident it can only help (or do nothing).

BTW, that's officially 4 weeks post release! Anyone gotten any APOGON's this far before (besides ORA)?

FWIW,

Matt

 

[mwp]

OK, not sure what this means, and stupidly I didn't do a water test before just going ahead with the water change. BUT, those clownfish larvae? Swirling about or DEAD on the bottom (maybe 25 bodies already piled up). I may have misjudged my aclimation of the larvae, OR something has built up in the tank and is simply taking them down (i.e. ammonia, nitrite). I'm going to keep a close eye on the situation as long as I can and see what happens....that new clean water is still dripping in.

FWIW,

Matt

 

[mwp]

Starting up another water change this AM to simply remove all the DOA clownfish larvae Also increased the phyto drip...I figure at least 1L can go in today (to help absorb any fouling agents that come about like nitrites due to all the clownfish on the bottom overnight).

 

[FishGuttz]

**Rant Alert**

It's none of my bizness but why on earth would you put clownfish larvae in with your succesful cardinal fish that are almost MM or past.

 

[mwp]

I know, I know. Quite simply, 1 larval tank available, that's all I get to work with. I secretly hoped they'd clear out the rotifer population too. Plus it DID work the first time. PLUS we do need to rear $ generating fish to help pay for my other breeding projects (starting in '07 we're losing 50% of our income when Renee student teaches for her masters program, so the fish need to kinda pay for themselves IF they can). I MUCH RATHER would've preferred to put them into a 10 gallon by themselves, rather than force the cardinals to put up with them

Matt

 

[mwp]

Well, the cardinalfish got a feeding of enriched BBS nauplii from the fridge...it seems almost no interest. Meanwhile, again the tiggerpod population in the larval tank has dwindled...I think I know what the preferred 2nd food of the leptacanthus is (not surprised). I harvested another 6 basters of Tiggerpods, seived through 10 micron to get the naupliis too, and added them into the larval tank.

Our earlier water change ended up being a 1 gallon removal of bottom debris, followed by 1.5 gallons of clean saltwater. A liter of phyto had dripped in already, so the tank is pretty green right now.

We have 5 or 6 "gapers" now, those fish that appear to be holding their mouths open and breathing hard...yet they still feed. I wonder if this is part of meta, or perhaps problems with trying to eat food items that are too large, or a water quality thing (although it doesn't "come and go", i.e. it doesn't appear to be a "behavior" in response to a stimulus). Anyway, there are 3 that are definitely "a cut above" in terms of size and body shape, basically they're looking like little tiny Flame Cardinalfish. Now their bodies just have to get deeper and I think we'll be through.

I've also noticed ONE larvae that has a small white spot...sure looks like the dreaded ICH so I may cull him out now rather than risk spreading.

Matt

 

[Luis A M]

I don´t know if it is related,as I never did Apogon,but "DOA"is other of the misterious frustrating problems I found raising larval fish.Typically nice large larvae die suddenly at metam.time,one by one.I "feel" there is some relation with bs feeding or enrichment of it.Happens with damsels,gobies and blennies.

 

[ediaz]

Don't forget bacterial infections,


I heard artemia is bad for larvae at that stage, see Gardner golden damsel 2006;-)

Ed

 

[mwp]

Ed, do you have a link to a reference on the article you're citing? I can't find it via google.

Matt

 

[ediaz]

I'll never tell...

theres no article, LOL

He a a mutual friend of Luis and I


He told me he used pods to bring up some golden damsels because he beleives artemia is what kill most larvae during that period, and he KNOWS what hes doing.

Ed

 

[mwp]

Ah, coolio. I'm kinda leaning towards the Tiggerpods myself..the cardinalfish have a definite preference for them! I hope my pod cultures can keep up with the demand.
Matt

 

[Luis A M]

Now don´t feel bad for using bs,you didn´t have many options.
But being in the same tank where you have juv.clowns casualties,I bet Ed is right about bacteria and you should dump some antibiotics,won´t harm.You checked for Vibrio?

 

[mwp]

Not sure how to check for Vibrio Luis...any tips?

I had some Maracyn around, mixed it outside (each packet treats 20 gallons), poured in 1/2, saving the other 1/2 in the fridge for tomrorow. Definitely better safe than sorry.

HOWEVER, with a cleaned hatchery, new water and DECAPPED BBS, should bacteria and other items along those lines not be an issue, at least when it comes to BBS being a possible source of problems?

Matt

 

[mwp]

FWIW, the active members of the cardinalfish "school" are now 17. There's one hanging out at the surface, looking lethargic and stressed.

Matt

 

[mwp]

Yes, another "BTW" post - the active ingredient in Maracyn is erythromycin.

Matt

 

[ediaz]

Bacteria not just comes with artemia/live foods feeding there are many sources.


Ed

 

[mwp]

OK, so I tried to cull the one with the "spot" and I was pretty sure I got it. It happened to have a "gaping mouth" as well, which in looking at the last picture in this series, it looks MORE like a developmental thing. Basically, it looks like the upper jaw is short, like these guys have huge underbites.

Anyways, I THINK I got the one I was going after...it "died" as soon as it hit the little dish I use under the scope, although it's heart was still beating while I photographed it.

28.5 days old, one more bites the dust.

 

[mwp]

 

[Luis A M]

Right thing to do.If deaths stop tomorrow,it was bacteria.
Your larva is very close to metam.The dorsal "hump" is now taller than the head.
What a janitor crew!what are them,flat worms?
Sent pm,e-mail,etc

 

[mwp]

Well, I wish I could pull out the larvae that are 1 CM plus at this point..they sure look like they've gone through "meta". Just don't want to risk anyone under the scope and the macro mode is shot on my camera...so we'll have to go without pics for a while yet.

Matt