Aquarist and the fish they own
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lucidheights
NYRC member
why not make a poll? It beats having people chastise you on this thread. If it matters any, i've known many aquarists and all of them have broken a rule or two when it came to fish selection. It seems we all do it, some of us learn and others do not. If you ask me, keeping any type of fish in any type of tank is cruel on some level.
Stuart60611
New member
Think about what you are saying. This is hobby grounded in science. There is a well-established mathmatical and scientific process for determining such percentages. Is it even reasonable to request those involved in a scientific hobby to offer opinions on percentages that only can be determined by a well-recognized mathmatical and scientific sampling? Would you ask a drug manufacturer whether a drug is safe to be injested by humans without any scientiic study of the safety of the drug? We stoped centuries ago guessing at such things and now recognize that only science and math truly have the answers to such inquires.
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Yea I found myself watch wale wars this summer and I believed that was cruel, but what am I doing in my home. Not on purpose, but fish die and not the way nature intended it.
So you admit that you are a cruel person?
I am not nor do I consider anyone in this hobby or any other that includes keeping animals.
What are corals? Is that cruel?
Yes and I speed too.
Should I just ask these questions:
Have you ever had a fish in an aquarium that was not suitable? Ex: a hippo tang in a 55 gallon tank
Have you ever displaced a fish from your tank to a suitable home for that fish once he had outgrown the tank? Ex: fellow aquarist, petstore
I am sure there are many people that believe that what we are doing is cruel.
Stuart60611
New member
Much better approach for a reasonable discussion of the topic. I think it is a good idea to discuss this. I just have a hard time with the idea of forming arbitrary percentages on the topic and then discussing these baseless percentages as if there is any reasonable basis to do so.
lucidheights
NYRC member
To you i may not be cruel, but to an animal activist i may be. At some level, i know that keeping these animals is immoral, but i accept the tradeoff between the pleasure i attain from watching them swim around in my room, and the fact that i am removing them from their natural habitat. The truth is that we ARE removing them from their natural habitat, whether that is cruel or not depends on who you ask, doesn't it?
The problem with this method is that the persons that have done wrong will not post or get involved. Because I have now seen how negative some can be for just asking a question that they do not agree with what the answer is.
Stuart60611
New member
It is not that people are being negative because they disagree with the answer. People are being negative at arriving at such percentages because there is absolutely no plausible way to fairly discuss such percentages without arriving at them with some accepted mathmatical and scientific process. You cannot discuss whether a conclusion is correct or not without the conclusion being based on something other than pure conjecture.
Slightly off topic, but thought you mind find this survey interesting http://www.takelifeeasy.com/reefsuk/articles/unsustainablelivestock.php
Here's a little quote from it :
Now That You Know The Species Is Difficult To Maintain Or Provide For, Would This Stop You Purchasing Another?
Out of the 9 people that kept fish that were listed as unsuitable for captivity, 8 said that they would not stop buying the fish and the other 1 person was undecided.
Here's a little quote from it :
Now That You Know The Species Is Difficult To Maintain Or Provide For, Would This Stop You Purchasing Another?
Out of the 9 people that kept fish that were listed as unsuitable for captivity, 8 said that they would not stop buying the fish and the other 1 person was undecided.
jmski333
Member
whether your Pseudo numbers are correct or not does that mean you support people to purchase fish that they can not support? We are trying to lower these number that you believe are close estimates. Just because other people do it does not make it ok and does not mean we should recommend others to do so.
What if they were born in your tank?
Stuart60611
New member
At least that would have some plausible basis for arriving at the numbers. However, as I am sure you can appreciate, such polling data is flawed on so many levels, such as the sampling of particpants, the way the polling question was asked, etc. Nevertheless, it is at least something other then making up a number in your head and concluding the number is based on something other than your own thoughts.
They would have been born naturally in the wild if their parents were not captured.
I love to watch mine eat. I probably overfeed them, but I believe they are happy when they eat. So I probably overfeed.
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