Are Metal Halides history?

[pmrossetti]

Is it just a matter of time before they're the VHO of lighting?

just wondering. what do you think?

as leds get better and better.

maybe t5s are going too?

 

[djk83]

I have halides and leds. I am a fan of both I dont think halides are going anywhere soon.

 

[nvdiz]

i wouldnt say so yet.

but LEDs are catching up quick

 

[username in use]

I don't think it will be LED's that do away with halides, I think it will be Plasma lights.

 

[jayg4u]

I have both, 250mh and Cree Royal Blue LEDs for my actinic lighting. I used to run t-5s for my actinics. And after 2 months of leds, I can total tell a difference in the colors of my corals. I think for me a combination of both is the way for me.

 

[sneeyatch]

Metal halides are tried and true. I think it will be some time before they go away.

 

[rtparty]

This same conversation was being had many years ago but we were talking about VHO and PC's going away because of T5 lighting and MH getting better.

Guess what? Both are still around and haven't disappeared. Metal Halides will be around for the next 10 years unless some government act bans them. Too many people still love the halide look and success that they have.

LEDs are still years away from really being king IMO.

 

[Runfrumu]

I like the look of halides better than fluorescent tubes, and the fact that I can have 3 bulbs as opposed to 12 or so fluorescent to get the same growth is appealling to me.

LED's are ok, but until the fixture's come down in price to match MH, they won't be replacing them anytime soon either.

As for me, as long as I can run MH, I will.

 

[rtparty]

I like the look of halides better than fluorescent tubes, and the fact that I can have 3 bulbs as opposed to 12 or so fluorescent to get the same growth is appealling to me.

LED's are ok, but until the fixture's come down in price to match MH, they won't be replacing them anytime soon either.

As for me, as long as I can run MH, I will.

What kind of tank are you running that it would take 12 T5 bulbs to equal 3 MH? Is it the six foot 125g in your sig?

You only need 6 of the 60" tubes and you would be able to keep anything you wanted.

Just FYI.

 

[110galreef]

VHO still the best actinic sups! They have yet to go anywhere. Plus great for Fish Only & freshwater setups. Also excellent sizes & costs, 2', 3', 4' 5' 6' etc......

Now LED's are sweet and will be a great thing when the cost comes down.

I think PC, given the output, cost, sizes and quality of light should be gone!

 

[Chris27]

They surely won't be history on my tanks for a good long while!

I figure it to be comparable to the gas engine vs. hybrid vs. electric motor. When they make it cost effective to trade my Chevy small block in for an electric motor, I may consider it...until then I will pump the gas in at $4/Gallon and continue to smoke on by those electric things loaded to the gills with D-Cell batteries.

 

[110galreef]

BTW, with my basement setup, the heat from my MH's is actually a bonus! Oh and the shimmer...who would have guessed??

 

[RuffsReef]

I don't understand why people think it cost so much more to go LED than MH, it is a little more but well worth it. Here is the price comparison in our tank:

MH:
3 Lumenmax Fixtures: $500
Ballast: $390
Bulbs: $300
Total: $1,190
Montly electricity cost: $49.64 (just lights)

LED:
AI Fixtures: $1,500
Monthly electricity cost: $13.96

So my ROI on an LED system is less than 1 year since I would have to buy new bulbs for the MH system in a year.

 

[whis169]

I asked the folks at wetwebmedia that question a while back when I saw a write up in the wall street journal on what the government was doing. They said they would not go away for a long time because so many companys use MH in warehouses, retail, etc. Don't see them going away in my lifetime.

 

[James77]

I don't understand why people think it cost so much more to go LED than MH, it is a little more but well worth it. Here is the price comparison in our tank:

MH:
3 Lumenmax Fixtures: $500
Ballast: $390
Bulbs: $300
Total: $1,190
Montly electricity cost: $49.64 (just lights)

LED:
AI Fixtures: $1,500
Monthly electricity cost: $13.96

So my ROI on an LED system is less than 1 year since I would have to buy new bulbs for the MH system in a year.

Not everyone has the same electric rates as you. My halide monthly bill is about 1/4 yours. The 3- halide setup you list would easily cover a 6 foot x 2 foot plus tank, and you are really giving the minimum AI fixtures needed. 6 AI Sols would be the more common setup on a tank the same size that would be coever by 3 Lumenmax reflectors to get even, full coverage, which would double the cost of the AI fixtures.

Also, unless you are buying giesemann halide bulbs, the majority of the common bulbs- XM, Phoenix, radium, etc- are in the 50-70 dollar range.

 

[BeanAnimal]

This same conversation was being had many years ago but we were talking about VHO and PC's going away because of T5 lighting and MH getting better.

Guess what? Both are still around and haven't disappeared. Metal Halides will be around for the next 10 years unless some government act bans them. Too many people still love the halide look and success that they have.

LEDs are still years away from really being king IMO.

Things are not always what the appear to be...

The lighting that is available to our hobby is largely dependent on what INDUSTRY is willing to adopt. Due to the almost non-existent "reef hobby" market and high cost to customize products, we borrow and sometimes adapt technology.

VHO was largely a result of borrowing bulbs from the tanning bed industry. Their problem is not their efficiency (as all fluorescent tubes are in the same ballpark) but their PHYSICAL DIAMETER making them poor candidates for compact and efficient reflectors. T8 and PC started to gain acceptance for high-bay retrofits and therefore briefly found their way into our hobby. T6 bulbs were never adopted by industry and therefore never became widely available to our hobby. PC bulbs came in too many sizes and configurations to be "common" retrofits for high-bay and were to expensive for "new" design and they are not at all conducive to efficient reflector design, so they have somewhat stalled out in industry. T5 bulbs have the same basic output as a T6, T8, T12 or PC, but they have the advantage of allowing very narrow and highly efficient reflectors to be used. Industry will not be moving away from T5 anytime soon, and therefore neither will the "hobby".

T5 and MH technology is still by far the most common choice for industrial and horticultural lighting and therefore will not be going anywhere soon.

LEDs will become affordable to our hobby when industry decides that LED street lamps and high-bays are better than MH or HPS units and general use LED troffers are more beneficial than T5 troffers. They will not decide this until they can see a VERY CLEAR cost/benefit ratio or govt forces them to switch.

Notice how many T12 fixtures are still EVERYWHERE you look. The cost to retrofit or replace is prohibitive and in most cases only NEW construction is fitted with T5 (often by code mandate). The "cycle" started many years ago and will take many more years to complete. We really have not even begun cycling out MH and T5 with LED, so it is going to be a long ride (unless of course govt dictates differently by law).

As important as we (as a hobby) think we are, NOBODY (that matters) is paying attention to what we want or use

 

[110galreef]

I don't understand why people think it cost so much more to go LED than MH, it is a little more but well worth it. Here is the price comparison in our tank:

MH:
3 Lumenmax Fixtures: $500
Ballast: $390
Bulbs: $300 plus avg bulb now adays is like $60-$70
Total: $1,190
Montly electricity cost: $49.64 (just lights)

LED:
AI Fixtures: $1,500
Monthly electricity cost: $13.96

So my ROI on an LED system is less than 1 year since I would have to buy new bulbs for the MH system in a year.

For a tank needing 3 MH's, you will probably need 4-5 AI units for the spread.

My tank footprint 60 x 36.
MH:
3 Lumenmax Lumenbite/Lumen Arc (pick one) Fixtures: $500
Ballast: $390
Bulbs: $300 plus avg bulb now adays is like $60-$70
Total: $1,190
Montly electricity cost: $12.60 3 250w MH's 8hrs a day 30days a mo at .07c kwH

LED:
Min 4 units to cover probably more 5-6, as 4 will have a hard time covering that width.
thats closer to $2500
electricity ~ $1.85

Granted the electricity is more, but the heat from the MH's reduces the usage of my heater. I know not normal but works for me & my basement setup. And actually 2 250w MH's work perfect on my tank, w/ 2 5' VHO for dusck to dawn & accctinic supp. This is still about a $1000 build and $12/mo electrcity




Look at a 72 x24" tank.
MH:
3 Lumenmax Lumenbite/Lumen Arc (pick one) Fixtures: $500
Ballast: $390
Bulbs: $300
Total: $1,190
Montly electricity cost: $12.60 3 250w MH's 8hrs a day 30days a mo at .07c kwH

LED:
Min 5 units to cover

thats closer to $3000
electricity ~ $2.30/mo

Thats a lot of bulbs and electricity to cover that extra $1800 upfront.

DIY builds are the best way to get exactly what you want and still cost alot. Prices are getting closer, just not there yet

 

[James77]

I've used all the common lighting...T5s, LEDs and halides. The halides are not going anywhere anytime soon, the same things were said about MH being obsolete when T5s were all the rage a few years ago. I think all the types will remain useful and liked in our hobby, none of them will be "obsoloete" though the pros and cons of each will suit people differently. For me, saving $7 or $8 on electric and $100 a year in bulb replacement seems useless in a hobby where the livestock alone is worth well into the thousands.

Heat is not an enemy to everyone. What is the point of getting super-cool LEDs just to have your heater run all that more often? I am trying to get the perfect balance in my tank where I need neither chillers nor heaters.

 

[RuffsReef]

Wow, you guys have cheap electricity! I live in Southern California though, they bend us over on electricity rates.

Also if you live in a colder climate MH may work better for you as well, since it stays over 70* year around here my heater doesn't kick on very much.

 

[110galreef]

Wow, you guys have cheap electricity! I live in Southern California though, they bend us over on electricity rates.

Also if you live in a colder climate MH may work better for you as well, since it stays over 70* year around here my heater doesn't kick on very much.

Yeah I know....luckily electricity is cheap. I have my whole setup (250g DT and 40G frag tank, mostly effecient (aside from lights MH's on both tanks) costing me ~$45/mo