Ashamed, stupid, learned my lesson...

[beertech]

Hi guys,
I have a question about the life cycle of ich and how to avoid another problem. A couple of months ago I foolishly bought a Naso Tang and with the assurance of my LFS, skipped the QT procedure. I'm not trying to pass the blame, it was totally my own stupidity. Usual story, he seemed fine for a couple of weeks, then quickly went downhill. Here's the really stupid part: I went back to the same place and immediatly bought another Naso. This one appeared so much more healthy and chubby than the previous one, active, eating etc.. Both had been in the stores medicated holding tanks for about 3 weeks. I was convinced that the first loss was just a fluke, and this new fish would do much better. Once again, I skipped the QT (insert abusive comments here, I deserve it). Once again after 3 weeks of being active and eating everything, the Tang quickly perished. This one went in a 2 day period, at the end showing visible signs of Ich. So, now I know my display is infected. I currently have 2 Saddleback Clowns, a Yellow Watchman Goby and 3 Engineer Gobies. It's a 6 ft 135Gal. None of these fish show any signs of weakness or infection. My question is, assuming they all stay healthy and are able to fight off or resist the parasites, will the parasites then die off? Or do I have to remove even healthy, strong fish and let the tank run fallow for the 8 weeks? I still plan to eventually add a Naso or other type of Tang after proper quarantine/ treatment. I appreciate your input, and I feel pretty stupid for listening to my LFS about their so called quarantine.
Thanks,

Gord

 

[Robka]

I made a similar mistake and lost all my fish in my 140gal, but it made me start a 40 gal quarantine tank to prevent this in the future.

Unfortunately your tank is infected with Ich even if some fish show no signs of the disease. I read that the longest Ich can survive without fish as a host is 70 days. I let my tank run fallow for 72 days and the disease was gone. If your tank does not have any inverts you can use hypo salinity 1.009 for 4-6 weeks or treat with Copper, but all fish have to be treated, because they are infected, but their immune system is strong enough to prevent them from showing signs of the illness.

Sorry for your loss,

Robka

 

[RBU1]

I agree with most of what Robka suggests. I disagree with the treating in the main tank. You should never treat anything in the main tank. Remove all your fish to an ESTABLISHED treatment tank. Use Cupramine for 4 weeks and leave your main tank fallow of all fish for 12 weeks. In the future anything wet you place in that tank must have a quaratine period.....EVERYTHING!!!

 

[VoodooMach]

You could also soak the food in vitality or selcon and garlic... has worked for me before, but no it won't completely remove ich from the system although it does boost their immune systems significantly.

 

[foster200]

all great advice. I am in the same situation with a Mimic Tang that appeared healthy..

one thing though that was not answered and that I am curious about as well.

If all the fish are healthy and none of the other fish get ich will the ich eventually die off. If the fish are healthy and do not "allow" the ich to attach themselves, this should be the same as a fallow tank.. correct? maybe?

 

[VoodooMach]

Very healthy fish are MUCH less prone to succumbing to ich, but its still possible.

 

[RBU1]

I have read that if your tank remains ich free for over a year there is a good chance the life cycle has died off...But you can not add anything to the tank in that years time.

 

[beertech]

Thanks for all the input guys,
I think it would be better not to stress already healthy fish by tranferring them to a QT. Then there is the ongoing battle with water quality in the QT, which is also stressful to the fish. I'm thinking something must have stressed out the Naso to make it suddenely more succeptable. I now realise I probably wasn't feeding it enough or nutitious enough foods. I would prefer to wait for 8-12 weeks and observe the fish that are in the display to see if they exhibit any signs. In the meantime, I will be asking around for referrals in my area for good, reliable suppliers. Also, getting prepared for providing the proper diet.

Now, another silly question: Is there any benefit to doing a 1 day medicated dip for a fish that shows early signs of Ich? My thinking is that the dip would kill off at least some of the parasites, allowing the fish to have some relief, in turn giving it a better chance to fight off the remaining parasites. It also wouldn't be as stressful as a long stay in a small, unstable QT. What do you think?

Thanks again,

Gord

 

[Chris27]

Please read this, it will explain the life-cycle and treatment options in detail. Memorize it if you have to, I did! Ever since I adopted a QT regimen I have been a much happier reefer.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Short answers to your questions though, once Crypt is in a tank it will remain there as long as there is a fish host, also a dip may provide short term relief to an infected fish, however it has the chance to get it again as the cycle comes back around.

FWIW, raising your tank temp to 81-81F (speeds up the process), and allowing it to go fallow for 5-6 weeks will work to eradicate the parasite.

 

[mhosts]

If all the fish are healthy and none of the other fish get ich will the ich eventually die off. If the fish are healthy and do not "allow" the ich to attach themselves, this should be the same as a fallow tank.. correct? maybe?

Most of the time, the fish that don't show signs of it externally do have some infestation inside their gills... That is the most common place for ich to infect first and you will never see this.

Once it has been introduced to your system there are only the methods mentioned above for removing it.

That being said, if you never put another tang in your tank the ich may never kill another fish again.

Clownfish, triggers, damsels, mandarins are much more resistant due to a thicker slime coat on their bodies.

Since tangs do not have this thick slime coat, and they have relatively thin flesh, you will see ich come back as soon as you introduce the next tang, even after a proper quarantine procedure.

 

[beertech]

I have been planning on adding a Maroon Clown or 2, plus a Mandarin. I think I'll add these guys first and hold off on the Naso. When I do add the Naso, I'll have to be prepared to deal with his inevitable outbreak. Hopefully it won't be fatal, starting with a healthier fish and feeding only the best food, garlic, selcon etc..
Hey Mhosts, you're in Ottawa too, are you active on any of our local forums? Different user name? I'd like your opinion on where you get fish etc..

Gord

 

[biger]

Here is another good article on the subject.

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

 

[beertech]

Thanks, I'll get to it as soon as I can, I just started reading the sticky at the beginning of this section about good feeding for healthy fish.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Hi guys,
Here's the really stupid part: I went back to the same place and immediatly bought another Naso. This one appeared so much more healthy and chubby than the previous one, active, eating etc..
Gord

Going back to the same LFS is not a mistake.

Don't be in a grudge mood. The LFS owes you nothing except to provide vigorous livestock. The rest is and ought to be really dependent on you, newbies or experienced.

If you rule out a LFS from which you have bought fish with ich and then later died, you will have no place to shop at.

 

[beertech]

Yes, I agree totally.
I was a little grumpy initially, but now after all the advice and some further reading, I realise that I have to be more careful with my end of things. QT, acclimation, proper feeding, and closer observation all come into play. I'll also pick up some meds to have on hand in case something does pop up. I think my sheer luck with other fish up until lately has made me assume that all additions will be easy. I just hope I don't become too paranoid now after reading about all the diseases out there!
Thanks everybody.

Gord

 

[Robka]

I agree with most of what Robka suggests. I disagree with the treating in the main tank. You should never treat anything in the main tank. Remove all your fish to an ESTABLISHED treatment tank. Use Cupramine for 4 weeks and leave your main tank fallow of all fish for 12 weeks. In the future anything wet you place in that tank must have a quaratine period.....EVERYTHING!!!

I agree to not treat the main tank unless it is absolutely necessary. Letting the DT go fallow would definitely be the easiest way to kill Ich without hurting your biological filter or any inverts he may have.

 

[KingwoodMarcia]

Biger, good read, thanks.