Aspiring hobbyist looking for advice :)

[Zionas]

I've kept some fish (freshwater, angelfish, goldfish, discus, archer fish) as a kid but that was such a long time ago that it's all but a faint memory for me. As an aspiring fishkeeping hobbyist now that I'm an adult, I have often heard that novice hobbyists should start with a freshwater setup but I really love saltwater fish. It's been a little dream of mine to have my own saltwater tank. I have done some vague research on random sites including LiveAquaria, and I have decided that I would like to begin with a 40-gallon, 55-gallon, or a 75-gallon FOWLR tank.
Since I've heard about just how awful most Damselfish species can be, I have decided that my first fish be a pair of True Percula, Ocellaris, Saddleback, or Clarkii's Clownfish. Since the True and False Percula Clownfish seem to be the most readily available, I'll most likely have either one of those species as my first fish. I'd also love fish such as a Lawnmower Blenny, 4-6 Blue Green Reef Chromis, a Red or Purple Firefish, a Six Line or a Fairy Wrasse, and if possible, a Pygmy Angelfish or Butterflyfish.
I'm also interested in something like a Filefish, a Triggerfish, or a Soldier / Scorpionfish. As for Tangs, the only Tang I'd be willing to consider at an early stage would be the Yellow Tang. I'm not even against the idea of having a Damselfish or two, but if I decide to get Damselfish it'll be something like the Yellowtail Blue or if I can find one, a South Seas Devil.
I know the 1-inch of fish per gallon rule, so if anyone would have the time and patience to come up with what a 40-gallon, 55-gallon, or 75-gallon setup could look like in terms of equipment and fish / inverts I'd be really glad. I've also read that it's best I get a clean-up crew of some kind, which is shrimp / hermit crabs / worms / snails. For now, please try to suggest species that are "noob friendly" because I am starting from zero. I also realize I'm getting way ahead of myself because I haven't even planned things, so I need to be guided on just about everything.

There are a few things that concern me: 1. I'm a soon-to-be expat who's considering moving to a developed Asian country, either China or the Philippines. Of course I could still order whatever necessary equipment online from sites such as eBay or Amazon.

2. It's honestly daunting to me, there's a psychological barrier to starting things because I heard the tank cycling process can take weeks, even up to a month-and-a-half, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best cycling method.
3. I'm also afraid that I'll have fish / inverts dying at some point which would certainly break my heart.
4. The costs. I'd like a relatively inexpensive setup (I'm on somewhat of a budget) that's not too high maintenance. What if I cannot find live rock at the aquatic pet store in either one of these Asian countries?
5. Should I avoid buying any fish friom a tank with dead fish?
6. There's just so much variety to choose from when it comes to fish, I'd like to know which species to avoid as a novice.
7. Ideally I'd probably want an anenome for my pair of clownfish, even if it's not a very big one. Also, what if I want to upgrade to a reef tank in the future?
Tips, resources (both books and online), encouragement, anything would be appreciated.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

First off, welcome to RC! Lot's of good people here that would be happy to advise you. The best advice I got as a newbie was to buy a book before buying any aquarium equipment. Now, with the internet, you have a vast source of info, so you don't have to buy a book. The important thing is learning the basics, and then applying what you've learned.

It sounds like you're well on your way to creating a fish list. It's helpful to decide which fish is most important to you to have. Then you can base other fish choices on whether they are compatible with it.

Tank size will also affect your choices. I'd start with the smallest tank option. It will be cheaper to set up and if it doesn't work out, you'll have lost less money. This hobby can be expensive or cheap - that's up to you.

For now, I'd focus on the fundamentals of starting a new marine tank. Then figure out the order of introduction of the fish you've chosen. Smallest, most timid fish go in first. Fish like a tang or dwarf angel would go in last.

Great first post, by the way. You really captured the newbie experience! It might be helpful, going forward, to limit yourself to one or two questions per post, to get the best, most focused responses.

Good luck and enjoy your journey!

 

[hkgar]

There is a lot of great information in the stickies on this thread.

Certain questions only you can answer, such as: Fish only with Live rock?, fish and corals? If corals what type?
As a newbie you should consider starting with "softie" corals as opposed to LPSS or SPS.
What type of lighting you want. There are pros and cons to all the diffferent type.

To a large extent the cost of reefing can be as expensive as you want. What is expensive versus cheap depends a lot on your personal budget. Research costs Are there online retailer that you could use to check prices.

The one inch per gallon rule does not apply to saltwater. With saltwater your concern is having a sufficient bio filtration system to remove NO3 and PO4.

Read read and read some more. (research)
Two rule of reefing:
1.Take everything slowly. Nothing in reefing happens fast
2. Take things slower than you thought rule one meant.

It is a lot of fun and entertainment and it is a hobby. Being a hobby means something you enjoy being involved in on a daily basis. If it becomes a job, it will ceases being fun.

 

[Sk8r]

Your clowns ARE damsels, but will get along ok with 1 (one!) chromis just fine.
For your startup, your fishlist is fine, but I'd go fairy wrasse rather than (attitudinal) 6-line; and dwarf angel (may nip coral) more than the (delicate, death-prone) butterfly.
When starting, read all the permanent threads atop this forum, buy smart, buy large enough to keep what you want. 100 gallons is a 'moderate' sized tank. 50 will let you keep more types than a 30, which is rated standard, but too small for many species. Having a sump and a better than average skimmer is real helpful. Filter medium isn't that helpful: your live rock does that job.
And take the 'safe' or 'conservative' choice of any two when starting out...'fancy' or 'exotic' or 'rare' means---this is real hard to keep, and rare for a reason.
Corals aren't hard, especially the softies: decent lighting and good water parameters will see a lot of growth. Some species, like green star polyp, grow like weeds, literally.
Very important: don't hesitate to ask advice if something about your tank starts going 'off' don't be embarrassed to ask: many plagues are easier to stop early rather than later. There's a fix for almost everything IF you have read those 'sticky' posts ^^^ and set up as recommended, with good conditioned rock.

 

[Oldreeferman]

Expenses skyrocket only if you want coral eventually, if stony types. Soft types no not a big issue tho a skimmer is nice if any corals are involved.
If you stick with a FOWLER then no special lighting is necessary either, no dosing, and no special reef salts or anything except a hydrometer. Just a tank with live rock & water circulation. Anything else is extra.
Research about ICK also as its a scourge for many, i've been lucky & never had an outbreak but from what i read that isn't the norm, usually most folks i know have had to deal with it from over stocking... or stressing the fish.... or not doing a QT 1st.
You did not mention anything about a refugium or a sump, id think REAL HARD about that one before buying any tank because they need to be mated together with holes drilled in the DT for the plumbing necessary, so if you are at all considering a reef tank down the rd. then absolutely get a setup with a sump, you then are ready for any equipment you would need later on & can hide everything down there instead of in the DT like skimmers, heaters, probes, ATO, etc.. plus they provide more water volume to the total sys & a place for more live rock and all macro algaes. Remember also that once you put fish in if they are not what you want or are giving issues they can be a real bear to remove & Damsels are some of the hardest to get out once in. Even Chromis tho usually timid can be like trying to catch greased lightning LOL....Don't ask me how i learned this fact. As long as you research what gets along with what you will be ok, just don't ever impulse buy any fish or coral without doing a major research about it 1st.
One last thing: a FOWLR is very easy to maintain &, if you go a reef tank it can begin to be a job & time consuming because all parameters must be rock stable & that changes over time with coral out growth, everyone feels different about the effort verses the results but unless everything is automated a reef tank is hands down a lot more time consuming... testing & maintaining stability.... so consider that fact also since everyones time has a different value to them.
Good luck & have fun!

 

[Oldreeferman]

Double post....... head cold has me goofy today.

 

[Zionas]

appreciate all the enthusiastic and insightful responses that have been given. I'm glad to be in a community of welcoming and knowledgeable hobbyists. I have no intention of dumping any fish into the tank all at once, nor dumping in any fish before my tank has fully cycled. I want to give them the best stay possible, both for their good and for my own pleasure. I've read up on captive-bred specimens but I assume that in a developed Asian country they'd be extremely hard if not impossible to find.
The suggestion to get the staff at the LFS feed the fish I'm interested in to see if they're eating normally is one I'll take to heart. To give a bit more info about my situation, I will certainly be starting my tank once I'm more settled in either the PH or China. I will probably be renting a one-bed apartment that will be enough for two people at most but not overly spacious. What I feel would be very much necessary for me is getting someone from my LFS that loves to help beginners and is willing to come over to my apartment and help me / teach me set me up (and is open to being contacted if I have questions). I'm pretty sure I'm younger than most members here (I'm turning 24 this year) and being your true-blue absent-minded Intuitive personality, I suck at lots of physical things.



I would like to know the key mechanical equipment I'll need for a FOWR / LR setup (does it have to be LR?) and the products you recommend.

What, in your opinion, is the quickest and most cost effective way of cycling a tank?

Since I'll be in developed Asia, where I feel the saltwater aquarium hobby is quite niche / obscure, I worry I won't be able to find frozen fish foods for the species that require it. I wonder if there are any species that can be kept healthy on a diet of dried fish food / flakes (and which brands are recommended for marine fish?), not that I don't want to give my fish the best diet possible. Of course ordering from the West on Amazon or Ebay is an option but that would mean air shipments from halfway or a full way across the world, and the availability of what I need won't be guaranteed. I also can't order any livestock from Western sites such as www.saltwaterfish.com or LiveAquaria.

As for the cleaning crew, would they be required for my setup? What if I can't find those snails (I have no idea about their availability). Can inverts such as crabs / shrimp / snails be put into my tank while it's still cycling?


Some equips I came across today:
1. AquaSpeed air pump
2. CS25 brand Mineral Hang-On Filter
3. Aquarium Top Filter RL-30 and RL-20
4. Infinity-Brand 3-in-1 Aquarium Power Head
5. AquaSpeed submersible pump
6. Tetra Brand AquaSafe (makes mineral water safe for fish and stabilizes aquarium water)

If anyone's familiar with these products, please tell me how they are.

Sorry for bombarding you guys with questions again. As a complete dummy, I don't want to go for anything too exotic / flashy. My criteria is: "tanky" / hardy, undemanding, forgiving.


If there are any candidates other than clowns for my first 1-2 fish after my tank finishes cycling, what are they?

I'm interested in these fish:
-Yellowtail Blue / Blue Devil
-Blue Green Reef Chromis
-Coral Beauty / Flame Angelfish
-Auriga's / Klein's Butterflyfish
-Bangaii / Pajama Cardinalfish
-Fairy Wrasses (any kind as long as it's easy to keep for a beginner)
-Sailfin / Algae Blenny
-Basslets (including the Royal Gramma)
-False Moorish Idol
-Hawkfish

 

[Zionas]

Gobies too.

 

[Sk8r]

The moorish idol and butterfly would likely not do well on flake/pellet/dried. The others probably or in some cases definitely would. Cleanup---micro hermits, the actual crab size of the tip of your little finger, no crabs with big claws. Scarlet hermits are my favorites. ALso bristleworms are very helpful. And cheap.

 

[Zionas]

I'm a fluent Mandarin speaker and somewhat fluent in the Chongqing / Sichuanese dialect (grew up in Canada, so). If I do end up in PH it would most likely be in Manila because I'm not ready to move to the provinces (and I doubt I'd be able to set up a tank there). There's also the possibility of me moving to BKK or Saigon but I'll leave it at GZ / BJ or Manila for now as they're my prime choices.

NOTE: Taking the possibility that my apartment space will likely be limited, there's a slim chance of me having room for a quarantine tank. What should I do in that case? I'm not sure about the possibility of finding pre-quarantined animals in China / PH / TH / VN / HK.
So, I've started compiling a comprehensive list of the equipment I'll need. To get my feet wet in the hobby, I've narrowed it down to a 40-gallon or a 75-gallon Fish-Only With Rock (Dried?) / Live Rock (does it have to be cured beforehand?) setup.

Out of the two tank sizes, there is a 50% chance I'll only be able to get a 40-gallon tank because apartment space will be limited (please give me the height / length / width of a 40-gallon and a 75-gallon tank).
I've found some basic water parameters for FO / FOWLR tanks on LiveAquaria and this is what I found: Specific Gravity 1.020-1.025 / SAME Temperature 72-78 degrees Fahrenheit (22.2 degrees Celsius-25.5 degrees Celsius) / SAME pH 8.1-8.4 / SAME Alkalinity 8-12 dKH / SAME Ammonia (NH3) Undetectable / SAME Nitrite (NO2) Undetectable / SAME Nitrate-Nitrogen (NO3) Greater than 30.0 ppm / SAME Phopshate (PO4) Greater than 1.0 ppm / SAME Calcium 350-450 ppm / SAME Magnesium 1150-1350 ppm / SAME Iodine 0.04-0.10 ppm / SAME Stronium 4-10 ppm / SAME
As for the equipment I'll need, here's what I've compiled so far (the ? is self explanatory, the - is asking for product recommendations):
Tank Equipment 1. The tank itself (40 gallon or 75 gallon) 2. Aquarium canister filter- 3. Water heater- 4. Sterilizer- 5. Power heads- 6. Protein skimmer- 7. Lighting system- 8. Filter sump- 9. Refugium- 10. Rock for biological and decorative purposes (Dry rock or live rock?) 11. Sand (live or dry?)

Measurement Equipment-

Other Key Equipment-

As for how I plan to source my equipment, I will try to look at my LFS, and if I can't find what I'm looking for I'll need to look on Ebay, Amazon, or a dedicated website. I hope they ship to most / all of Asia.

And from there, I will be: 1. Figuring out how to maintain the tank (water changes and anything else that's important) 2. How to feed the fish (flakes, dry foods, frozen foods, how to source them) 3. Wondering how to upgrade to a reef setup after at least 5 months (with easy-to-care-for corals)

As for adding fish, what's the interval I should give between adding each new fish?

 

[clevername]

you need to google 52 weeks of reefing. Watch every video a couple times. You now just gained 5 years experience from that.

 

[Krchfam]

+1. BRS Videos. Wealth of info!!


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