At a loss... thoughts, advice, etc?

elensius

Member
I'm at a loss, both literally and figuratively...

As some of you will recall, after cruising along with an "ok" tank for years, my system crashed a little over a year-and-a-half ago - most everything died, even my hardiest corals that had survived plenty of other mistakes in the past.

At the time (and after ruling out things like stray voltage, etc.), I chalked it up to the fact that my phosphates were a bit on the high side (often in the .15-.2 range... corals didn't grow gangbusters, but they did grow), probably due to the fact that I had a 4" sand bed for years, and both it and my rocks may have finally reached the point where they could no longer help soak up extra phosphate.

After removing the sand bed (gradually) and using GFO for several months, I finally got the phosphate levels back to the .05 or better range (Hanna checker). Not an ideal "0", but well within the range at which I was able to grow corals in the past.

Anyhow, after waiting several months with just a few hardy survivors in the tank (living, not dying!), I recently decided to take the plunge and restock my tank, and, unfortunately, the corals I purchased less than three weeks ago are already dying off at fairly rapid clip... and I don't know why.

Some of the SPS showed signs of trouble within a day or two after going into the tank, and now even some of the LPS are having the same issue (in all cases, the tissues gets more and more faded and "thin" looking as time goes by... and then eventually sloughs off - see pic below)



My numbers over the past few weeks:

salinity (swing arm) 26.3 26.5 26.5 26.5
pH (Salifert) 8 8.1 8.1 8
alk (Elos) 8.5 8.5 8 8.5
ca (Salifert) 420 430 430 425
mag (Salifert) 1350 1350 1380 1380
phosphate (Hannah) .03 .04 .03 .04

Perhaps I've somehow gotten a wrong "target" in my head for one of those parameters, but they seem acceptable to me(?).

I've ruled out stray voltage as the culprit, and after spending a lot of time reading various forums on the internet, all I'm left with as ideas to explain the rapid die-off are:

a. there's actually still a lot of phosphate in the tank, but it's in a form that isn't picked up by test kits (don't know if this actually happens, but I've read about it as a possibility - is there a way to check?)

b. bacterial infection of some sort (seems odd that it would kill off acros in less than 5 days though?)

c. contaminants in my salt (Red Sea)?

d. other contaminants from something leeching out of tubing or other plumbing parts (is there a way to test for this? I've ruled out copper, but don't know how I'd test for other chemicals)

e. a bad test kit somewhere along the line?

I do still have a bit of GFO and activated carbon in the sump, in case that is useful information.

Anyhow, if anyone has anything thoughts or experiences with this sort of across the board "burning" that might help me pinpoint the problem, I'd love to hear them!

Thanks for your help!
 
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Go to uniquecorals.com and consider purchasing a triton test. Google it. It can be helpful in ruling out contaminants or out of whack trace elements.
 
will look into that... thanks!

other ideas welcome as well - keep 'em coming, as I'm very disappointed about the current situation! :-(
 
Yes... blue bucket...


I guarantee that's part of your problem. I was burning green slimers at 150 par on my sandbed with that salt. It contains 50-100x nsw levels of manganese which boosts photosynthesis, to put it at a basic level.

I switched to io and my tank literally transformed over a month after 25% water changes every 5 days to remove as much Red Sea product as possible. We can talk more of you like. There are others, including a 2x TOTM winner that had the same experience. I know it works for some, but it literally had me almost leaving the hobby cause I was doing everything right and killing stuff still. Look at my tank now and I'm not doing anything dramatically different except for using different salt.

I also do a few things to prepare the salt for my tank. Namely, boosting cal and dropping alk. Feel free to pm me if you want links or more details.
 
I'll have to go back and look at my PayPal receipts from last summer and spring to see when I actually switched salts... but this may very well be the source of the problem (grrrrrrr)!!!!

Very good to know it might not be me and my coral karma after all :-)
 
That actually makes sense. When I had crappier lights I used Red Sea with good results with lower lighting, but ever since I got my Hydra-52's I switched to BioSea MarineMix Dual Phase and running them with more power and haven't had a problem. Maybe I could try some tests on my secondary tank and use Red Sea but with less light power.
 
old corals all died under the same light regimen they'd been on for years (approx 7 hours of 2 x 250W MH, 9 hours 2 x 96W actinic; new corals dying at bottom of 24" deep tank under the "acclimation" light cycle setting of my new LED system (Current 48" strip x2)).
 
Man that's a bummer, sorry to hear. Personally that would frustrate me enough to just get new rock and sand and restart the tank.
 
I've thought about doing that, but a) I like the rock work the way it is now, and b) I'd hate to toss the rocks (and pay for new ones) only to find out it is, in fact, due to something else (and though I haven't had a chance to go back and look at my PayPal history yet, I think the odds are pretty good that I'm going to discover that this problem started when I switched from black buck to blue bucket Red Sea Salt... even my ultra-hardy pocillopora that had survived numerous mistakes to reach basketball size died off "out of the blue").
 
hopefully that works for you. I had a scare with some high dollar salt once, and ever since then figured I will just stick with tried and true IO and supplement to where I want it.
 
I swear if I read what I wrote, I would think I was a total noob and full of you know what - but I swear it was as simple as that lol.
 
Hey, James... assuming the digital thermometer on the chiller is accurate, temp is usually in the 79.4-79.8 range (though been testing the upper limit at 81 for the past few days :-) ).

To be honest, haven't tested NO3 since I don't have a kit, but will explore that too (never had an issue with it in the 10 years prior, but I suppose a problem could have set in?).

I never had a problem with Red Sea Coral Pro, but I'm feeling more and more like the die-off may have occurred shortly after switching to their other (blue bucket) salt...

Thanks for the thoughts - will keep you posted!
 
I used coral pro without issue as well. Check the triton tests of the fresh mixed blue bucket salt compared to the in tank tests.

Like I said - if I read what I wrote I would think I was an idiot. But my experience was just that...

Btw - do not aim for 0 po4. That's a recipe for disaster unless you're feeding EXTREMELY heavy and constantly. People reference nsw levels of po4 but The difference most fail to recognize is that there is food constantly available at the same time. IMO it's not realistic to recreate this on the tank. My corals seem to do best with color and good growth from .08-.12 over .15 and I get algae issues.
 
I guarantee that's part of your problem. I was burning green slimers at 150 par on my sandbed with that salt. It contains 50-100x nsw levels of manganese which boosts photosynthesis, to put it at a basic level.

I switched to io and my tank literally transformed over a month after 25% water changes every 5 days to remove as much Red Sea product as possible. We can talk more of you like. There are others, including a 2x TOTM winner that had the same experience. I know it works for some, but it literally had me almost leaving the hobby cause I was doing everything right and killing stuff still. Look at my tank now and I'm not doing anything dramatically different except for using different salt.

I also do a few things to prepare the salt for my tank. Namely, boosting cal and dropping alk. Feel free to pm me if you want links or more details.

That's an absurd statement. Thousands of people have success keeping sps with red sea blue bucket, including me. And I have up to 600 par in some areas. If it's the exception rather than the rule, it's not the salt.
 
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