At my wits end with corals...help

[Pandora]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6633900#post6633900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reverendmaynard
I really wasn't talking about a test kit, but a test done at a lab (Which I think you'll find is what Randy did). There have been a couple of suggestions about trashing/selling (hopefully with full disclosure to the new owner) everything and starting over in this thread, I think.

I was just saying, as a last resort before doing anything that drastic, there are ways to test for even the smallest amounts of copper.

Oh, I see, I must have missed those posts... I'm with you there, lots of beginners have fitful starts and problems, no need to trash and start from scratch.

As for the copper test kit tangent... don't need to be looking at hundreds of dollars and in-lab testing to look at the ppb scale. The EPA standard for copper levels in drinking water are 10-15ppb as well, and I'm pretty sure there are relatively inexpensive tests you can order ($20 range, just looked this up) that are this precise. I can't remember if the aquarium brands get down to ppb, but I suspect they do (I never use copper in any of my tanks, because of the low threshold of toxicity--have expensive shrimp in both FW & SW).

 

[skylab1]

jmccown,

Your problem came be sum-up to one thing: bad filtration system period. Unless you change the way your water are being filter, this problem will come back and hunt you over and over and over again, I don't mean to scare you but I'll seen this problem all the time from my customer. FYI: carbon do take out copper, all of it; at least the one I am using does it. Clamps: you should use stainless steel or plastic one, non-stainless are usually brass or copper you don't want use that.

This is the link to pics of my 200 gallon reef at 4 weeks old:

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/reef/reef/

The whole system is filtered with 55lb of carbon and 100lb of pH rock on two large canister filter, no skimmer or anything else.

Your problem can be corrected, but only if you are willing to learn.

 

[Palancar]

This sounds like the same exact problem I had 3 months into it. Similar params, symptoms, suggestions, etc. Here is what I did. I stopped adding supplements. Increased my water changes to every 3 weeks. Started running carbon. And the biggest thing I believe helped was to increase my water flow. After doing these things my corals made a complete turnaround.

 

[graveyardworm]

My 2 cents, verify sg and get a refracto as soon as you can, start running some carbon (this will also help pick up some skimmer slack), if copper is a concern run a copper absorbing pad, get a better thermometer ( the stick on ones can be influenced by outside temp).

Products like ammo lock can confuse ammonia test and give a false reading 0 nitrites tends to indicate no ammonia. My red sea kit never shows a perfect 0 the color is always off a little bit.

 

[phippinj]

Hi I have just read every Item thats been written on your problem and here is what I've come up with. The amonea must go.If your RO/ID does not arrive soon you can go to a good salt water fish store or some times large heath food stores and they sell ro/id water for .50 cents per gallon for fresh or around .90 cents for salt. I did this when I was haveing problems and it cleared all my problems right up. stop wondering about you water and chang it to something you can eleminate as a problem. The next item. Most reef tanks are maintaned at a temtpreture of 79 to 81 degrees 80 being optmale with only a 1 degree sway one way oer the other. (76 degrees is low ). Not that this is your problem but it couldnt hert to raise it a few notches to the temp the corrals are used to be kept at. Youre reading should be ammona O, Phospate 0.2mg/ for fish only systems and 0.1 mg/l for fish and invertebrates.
Nitrite O , Nitrate between, .20 and .40 ppm. It is impossable to have O unless you stop feeding your amimals as anything you feed eventuly turns to Nitrate. That what water changes are all about keeping the nitrate levels in check along with adding new trace elliment and othe essentual minerals. You should at the minamal have used a commercal clorine and heavy metals remover. I have found a product called (Prime) works extremly well, the poduct is made by Seachem.Your town spring water water could have all kind of trase metals including copper, iron, Not to mention very high levals of calcium and if you are not testing for it and your adding calcium every day or every other day as part of a two part buffering system you could be way outside your peramiters 450 or higher.

 

[skylab1]

Who say it's impossible to get 0 nitrate? I have 0 nitrate on my tank and I feed my tank tone of food everyday, oh, did I mention I don't have a skimmer. You can have 0 nitrate if you have the right filtration system, since most of you don't have such system you'll never reach 0.

 

[graveyardworm]

My test kit always reads 0 nitrates even with heavy feeding. Thank you LR and DSB.

 

[jmccown]

OK, another serious question about the fittings. I am going to change the fittings to stainless. When I thought more in depth about this I recalled that I have a brass adapter fitting on my main return pump because I couldn't find a plastic one. Would this be causing the problem? If so I will switch out my freshwater pump and my SW pump and see if the problems start to go away.

BTW, for filtration I am running a Pro Clear 75g Wet/Dry and a Magnum 350 (with old carbon), I am going to replace with new carbon tonight. I am also running a UV sterilizer. I've heard mixed stories about these in coral tanks. What's your guys opinion of the UV? So my plan tonight is to add fresh carbon to the wet dry in the filter media and then put new carbon in the Magnum canister. I am also going to switch out the return pumps because of the fittings. Thoughts/opinions?

 

[skylab1]

Oh ya, the brass fitting will cause problem, try to get plactic if you can. You local LFS should have them.

UV are fine in any tank, so don't worry about it.

I don't know what carbon are you using, but pack as much as you can in your canister. Most likely you will need to change carbon once a month, but nothing you can do about that since those carbon only last about a month; my last years in my canister. It's shame to get ride of all the nice biological away every month and start over.

 

[graveyardworm]

The brass fitting is definatly a problem dont bother with stainless it can still corrode, go with plastic, and I would run a copper pad in the hopes it can absorb the brass.

 

[jmccown]

OK, update. Last night I worked for 3 hours trying to get things lined out on my tank. Here's what I accomplished last night.

* Discarded old carbon in Magnum 350 canister filter and replaced with new carbon.
* Added carbon to wet dry filter as well, in the former location of the bio balls (between two layers of poly filter media).
* Removed Brass adapter fitting from Mag return pump and replaced with larger diameter hose to fit over base of threaded fittings.
* Removed rusted hose clamps and replaced with Stainless steel ones till I can find some plastic ones
* scraped all green algae off back of tank
*Added ammo lock early yesterday morning (trying to reduce ammonia)
* Added the Aqua-safe water additive that is suppose to take care of chlorines and chloramines as well as remove any metals from water and add slime coat to fish.

Problem is I get up this morning expecting a nice sparkling clean tank and it is as cloudy as it has ever been. Only thing I could imagine that made it cloudy would be the aqua safe or the ammo lock. I wouldn't think the carbon would cause cloudiness. I pre-rinsed the carbon and everything as well. Hopefully the cloudiness will cut back and soon clear up and my RO/DI unit is on the UPS truck scheduled to be at my house today. Hopefully I can get enough water by in the morning to do a water change tomorrow night. I'm gonna do a 50% change. That sound okay?

 

[Danger731]

keep pluging away, you are on the right track. I still say test your Calcium levels, get that good water in there with a water change and don't leave your carbon in that canister for over 3 weeks. I do weekly RO water changes and 3 week carbon changes in my magnum. You can remove the carbon from the wet dry filter in 3 weeks as well and leave it out. the magnum carbon changed every 3 weeks is plenty.

 

[reverendmaynard]

I've had cloudiness before after changing carbon because the carbon was packed too tight for proper flow through. Don't know if that's your problem, but if it doesn't clear up on it's own, check to see that your carbon is loose enough in the filter for good flow.

skylab1 - 55lbs of carbon? 100lbs of PH rock?

Can you describe or show pictures of the way you run these?
Also, what's PH rock?

Do you ever change either of these?

 

[Pandora]

jm, I wouldn't worry too much about the cloudiness. That happens after a night of futsing with a lot of things in the filter and cleaning the algae, etc.

I think pH rock is that stuff made by Hiatt that is supposed to balance calcium and alkalinity (never used it and can't comment).

 

[sinder255248]

Test Kit

Test Kit

Could it be that the test kit is testing for total ammonia, both ionized and unionized???? It is possible that given the temp and ph you could come out with 0.25 as a result.

There is a website here that explains:

http://www.novalek.com/kpd62.htm
http://www.novalek.com/kpd66.htm <----Chart

If it is total ammonia, given his temp 76 and his ph of 8.2 he would get a reading of about 0.04 which is nearly undetectable on the un-ionized form (the bad stuff). Just a thought.

 

[skylab1]

Very good pandora, you are right, pH rock is from Haitt excet they don't made them they just sell it.

reverendmaynard - normally I don't bother to describe on RC on how it works since most people here don't like anything that's non-"traditional". So I'll think about it.

I will answer your other questions first:

pH adjustment rock is a rock that has 28 trace elements (not strontium) and has plenty of CaCO3 and MgCO3 for all corals.

The amount of pH Adjustment Rock required to elevate your pH can be calculated according to this formula:
.5 X gallons = 8.4 pH
.6 X gallons = 8.6 pH

pH Adjustment Rock will raise Calcium levels to over 400ppm and also elevate Alkalinity levels.

You don't change the pH rock, as time pass the pH rock inside the canister will dissoloves and you just add more.

The carbon will last minimum of 2 years inside the canister before they need to be replace assuming you back flush the canister once month.