At my wits end!

[kcfehring]

My tank is driving me insane!! My tank is 44 gallon corner tank with about 40 lbs of live rock, sand bottom that is about 3 inches, I have a bio wheel 280 for filtering, app. 910gph with the filter, a Hydora Koralia(sp?) 1 and a penguin 940 powerhead, and a 24" 36watt 50/50 PC light. For a long time all of my amonnia, nitrite and nitrate readings were good, but my calcium, alk. and phospahtes were high. I have since started using RO water for my water changes and salt mixture that had lower calcium supplements. I do a 20 % water change every week and for the last two weeks my nitrates have been around 80!!

Today I tested my water (tomorrow is when my weekly water change is scheduled) and here are the results

Am. 0
nitrite 0
nitrate at least 80
pH 7.8 - 8 (the color looked a little lighter than usual)
phospahtes 0.5!!??
calcium 450
alk 13.9
temp. 77
sg. 1.024

I have put in some calupra(sp?) that I got from my LFS yesterday hoping that it would help bring down my nitrates. I also feed about a 1/8-1/4 tsp of DT everyday to get my sunburst coral to open so it will feed, and 1/2 cube of some type of frozen food (brine, mysis, emerald entree, cyclops, blood worms). I have 2 clown fish and one pseudochromis, a coral banded shrimp, a cleaner shrimp, emerald crab, 3 small hermits, 2 turbo, 1 astrea, and 2 nassariums snails and four feather dusters along with a few different types of low light corals. So knowing all of this does anyone have any idea why my phosphates and nitrates would start to get so high? Nothing has died, I'm doing my water changes, and I don't think I'm feeding to much. What else can I do?

Thanks

 

[mskohl]

Not sure, but I think you're feeding too much. You essentially have 3 fish - a cube a day is a lot. Even if they manage to eat it all, that produces a lot of poop. Which leads to the next thing, your clean up crew is minimal. I would guess that they aren't getting it done. I'd probably try for a cube every other day or 1/2 per day. I like spoiling my fish with frozen food too, but a lot of people prefer the Thera A pellets. I have 5 fish and 4 shrimp and feed a cube every other day. If they start acting aggressive, I may supplement with some pellets or flake on the in between days.

Otherwise, you don't have enough bacteria to convert nitrates into nitrogen gas. Read the thread about the biowheels. I had an emporer 400 on my 45 before I switched to the refugium.

 

[djc1026]

How old is your nitrate test? Check it vs. another test kit.

I don't think the clean up crew it all that minimal as far as scanvenging left over food.

You may be dosing too much DTs if your only filter feeders are 4 feather dusters, sun polyps and a few low light corals. I don't know exactly what the feeding instructions are for it, but overfeeding filterfeeder food every day can be just as detrimental as overfeeding fish food sometimes.

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.

Dave

 

[TulsaReefer]

You mentioned a bio-wheel. They work much like the old "wet-dry" and can contribute to building up high Nitrates. If you have enough rock (and that will really depend on how light or dense your rock is), and as you have a 3" sand bed, I'd consider taking the wheel out of the Penguin and just let the rock and sand do the filter job. You can keep the filter running, and use it for things like carbon or othre media, but I'd take out the bio wheel, and the filter pads in it. Or if you keep in the filter pad, wash it out every few days to keep it from becoming a nitrate factory.

Also, if you don't have a protein skimmer, I'd consider adding one, as it will help remove quite a bit of waste that will eventually break down to Nitrates as well.

 

[SoonerReefer]

I would for sure take out the Bio-wheel and add a couple carbon filters in your 280,I run a Emperor 400 on my 55 and I left out the Bio-wheel and just run carbon every 2 weeks.
Do at least a 50% water change and getting a skimmer will for sure drop your Nitates way down to where they should be.
Big water changes is the secret to low nitrate levels and cutting back on feedings is also a big help..

Donny

OMAS

 

[Sk8r]

each fish should eat only enough to fill its mouth once a day. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

 

[scubajsm]

Have you tested your water than your putting in for water changes? I had nitrates in my well water, and had to change to DI.

 

[aaparkr]

I have been running a 75 gallon tank for 4 years. I agree with everyone here so far and... My nitrates have never been below 50. The reason? I have a Premnas Biaculeatus (Maroon clown) over 8 years old about 5" long that eats anything I put in the tank almost as soon as I put it in the tank. I recently lost my yellow tang of over 4 years because I have been cutting back on food to get my nitrates down. To date I have starved 2 bicolor blennies, a royal gramma, a flounder (it may have been a mistake to introduce that one),3 pearlscale butterflys and several bubble tip anemones.

I have come to the conclusion that the smaller your tank, the more you must do to maintain the water quality. Incidentally, I do 12 gallon water changes every week. This may be a little bit much in a 44. I have been told it is high for a 75.

I bought a denitrifier recently (expensive!) and my nitrates are finally testing under 25. I am smelling sulfur ( the catalyst in this device) lately, so I may have to adjust something, but it has been the only reliable way to maintain the nitrates in a 75 gallon tank with some fish. Currently nitrates are 20-25.

I have run the gamute of ways to reduce nitrates. At one point I had a sponge filter in the make up water inadvertantly creating nitrates (obviously not good).

Got a little free time? ask me about nitrates...

Tony

 

[TulsaReefer]

I also bought a sulfur based denitrifier, from Midwest Aquatics. It hasn't been set up very long now and is just starting to break in, but seems to work pretty well. The water going into it today is near 40 on nitrates, the water coming out is less than 5, and is dropping.

I am in somewhat the same type of situation, I have a large purple tang, and a 4" clown as well, which both eat way more than my tank can normally handle, as well as a few other smaller fish. Nitrates were never a problem in the past, but my tank is beginning to exhibit "OTS" (old tank syndrome) as it's been up without any major changes for almost 9 years now. And I don't want to tear it down now, as I'm hoping to upgrade to a larger tank, or add an additional tank in the future and don't want to do it all twice.

Some fish may be able to eat a small amount every day, but tangs are grazers, and they will eat continuously, and many grow pretty large. It takes more than a mouthful to support a 6" fish that's probably an inch in thickness as well which describes my purple tang. I'd love to house him in a larger tank than my 110, but I don't have one at the moment. The amount I feed him wasn't a problem in the past, but again I think I've pretty much exhausted the amount of nitrate a tank can process over it's lifespan, and it probably needs an infusion of fresh sand and rock to get it going again. The sand is being added slowly now, but the rock is more problematic, as there isn't a single rock in my tank that doesn't have at least one or two corals, zoas, or mushrooms on them. And the rock is all pretty well balanced in shelves and caves, to change one piece is a bit hard unless I can find one that perfectly fits. So, I'll probably just rely on the denitrifier to buy me time until I can tear it all down, or move it to a larger tank where I can augment with some new rock.

 

[happysak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9971082#post9971082 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TulsaReefer
You can keep the filter running, and use it for things like carbon or othre media, but I'd take out the bio wheel, and the filter pads in it. Or if you keep in the filter pad, wash it out every few days to keep it from becoming a nitrate factory.

Also, if you don't have a protein skimmer, I'd consider adding one, as it will help remove quite a bit of waste that will eventually break down to Nitrates as well.

Ditto 100% to TulsaReefer

 

[kcfehring]

Thanks everyone for your help, but I am a little confused...do I have to many in my cleaner crew or not enough? Is 1/2 a cube of frozen food every day to much, that is what I am feeding now.

I will take out the wheel, but the filters that are in the biowheel have carbon in them...is this what you are talking about or are you talking about putting carbon in the litte mesh bags and then putting that in in place of my filters.

The suggested amount of DT's is 1 tsp. per 15 gallons every other day. Is this to much for what I have in my tank?


I will be getting a new tank set up sometime this summer and be getting new rock, a sump/refugium, and a skimmer so hopefully that will take care of most of my problems...but until then thanks for all of the help.

 

[happysak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9972731#post9972731 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kcfehring
Thanks everyone for your help, but I am a little confused...do I have to many in my cleaner crew or not enough? Is 1/2 a cube of frozen food every day to much, that is what I am feeding now.

This is why it is called a forum. Everyone has their own opinion.

 

[djc1026]

I think you're fine for scavengers, but lacking for algae and detritus. Sounds like you're fine with the DTs, I didn't know what the recommended feeding was, just a suggestion to take a look at.

Dave

 

[aaparkr]

You are also correct on the biowheels. The filters and the carbons are not the problem. The biowheels are so good at growing the aerobic bacteria which handle ammonia and nitrites, but that results in more nitrates (the third step in the cycle). You need anaerobic bacteria to convert the nitrates into nitrogen gas and it only grows in areas completely devoid of oxygen. Biowheels and a lot of surface water movement get the water way too oxygenated for those critters, so nitrates increase.

What you want is to get the aerobic bacteria growing elsewhere in the tank and eventually anaerobic bacteria start growing under them. This is not something you have to work at. It will happen (slowly) as aerobic bacteria grow on all the surfaces in the tank.

Eventually, anaerobic bacteria start growing. A common place for this is a few inches in the sand bed. Some tanks (like mine) never get enough of the anaerobic bacteria and water changes are the only way to keep nitrates down.

Tony