ATB 'Small' Cone Pan/Plate Skimmer

I am no skimmer expert, I have just had a lot of skimmers. These question's are for Hahn, or anyone that has a lot of experience with skimmer's and the basic principles involved in the skimming process.I love the way these skimmers look and the way they are built.

Difference between needlewheel and beckett and how they react differently with the water in the skimmer?

The positives of the bubbleplate ?

What makes the cone principal better that the standard skimmer?

and if you have any other advice, please give it up.


The last question, who do we contact to order one????

:eek2: :bum: :eek1:
 
Well, I have only speculated as to the properties of a cone, I think ATB or KZ should provide their own data on that. IMO, there is something to it though.

As for needlewheel vs. beckett. The hard data is that a needlewheel has a better air:wattage ratio. Some beckett proponents claim their method of inducting water is better for other reasons... ORP, pH, etc. Or, that needlewheels can cause certain elements to precipitate out of the water. I dont want to say it isnt true, but I havent seen anything to back it up other than rumor here & there. To me, the only thing I can see between the two methods is that the mixing of a needlewheel is mechanical, rather than due to a vacuum, but both methods put air and water in moments where they are under pressure, and then under a relative vacuum. The only difference is that one has this happen inside a pump (sure, a beckett puts water through the pump, but not the air). Is it possible that the EM field of a megnetic drive pump causes some effect on the water? Dont know. Could the mechanical mixing induce some sort of static charge in the bubbles that causes them to be less efficient? Well... we can all speculate. But in the end, I dont think its anything that has been proven either way. Maybe some would like to read KZ's German patent on the KZ to see what it says. I can tell you though, there is little substance there beyond marketing claims (its not like they put scientific data into patents when they dont have to).

The bubble plate diffuses turbulence very well. Its along the lines of a spraybar. IMO, it allows you to have a much shorter skimmer, or a skimmer with the dwell time/contact time of a much taller skimmer.

As for ordering, http://www.atbskimmers.com/
 
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Yeah... its a bit on the high side. I dont know if I would go higher than 100g with the nano. I also wouldnt go higher than 200g with the 'Small'.
 
Well, I'd like to go ahead and ask for an inevitable comparison. Since they are running the exact same price, which would be your choice BK Mini 200 or ATB Small?
 
I cant say. Klaus hasn't sent me a BK mini 200 for evaluation yet.:lol:

The ATB has more space from the bubble plate to the top of the neck. The BK has a whole lot more air (the EU rating is 1000lph, but I think on 60hz they pull something like 1200lph). So its a real toss up that could have to do more with what kind of system you run it on. They seem to have two slightly different mehods as well.

I can tell you this though... the ATB needs to have the waterlevel around it kept constant in the same manner. I think I will go ahead and make the standpipe add-on for it (not a mod or anything permanent, more like an add-on). The water level in my sump does vary a little throughout the day, so the skimmer does as well. A standpipe eliminates that.
 
That is a neat idea, luckily I don't have that issue. The water level in my sump stays at the same level all the time. And by a stroke of luck (I mean...uh, carefully planning to every detail), the water level should be just about perfect for an ATB or BK Mini.

Pssh, Klaus needs to get on the ball with that then. He's making my decision tougher by not giving you freebies :rolleye1:
 
Lol. Im sure Klaus doesnt need to send me any skimmers because he doesnt need any advertising. The RE reputation alone is what sells his stuff.

As for the 'box'... thats pretty complicated for what you are doing, and it means that the skimmer gets even less of the flow through the sump since it is very likely it will recirculate its own output more. Its the same thing as having a baffle in your sump. In my case, the skimmer gets put in the lowest part of the sump, where the return pump is. I can keep the water level pretty steady down there... I just havent totally automated my ATI yet (I just do it by hand once a day). What can I say, I have been lazy on that. I should just get that line installed and be done with it.

The easier method really is to change the gate valve to a standpipe. With the BK, it would involve removing the valve all together. With the ATB, this isnt needed at all. You can just stick an elbow on the outlet... perhaps with a small piece of pipe attached to that for extra height, and then you can just tilt the elbow & pipe to get the right level in the skimmer. No need to modify the skimmer one bit.
 
This is a very intriguing skimmer design.

Glad to see it's performing well.

I wonder if the Nano Cone performs as well.
If so, I might have a winner for that 70 show tank.

Thanks for checking it out and posting your findings.
 
I just got mine. This has to be the best skimmer I have used. I took lots of pics and detailed a time line from when I plugged it in. If anyone wants me to post a thread about it let me know. I don't want to waste RC space if nobody is interested. This skimmer takes out so much gunk. I didn't know I had that much waste in my tank. I was running a Deltec before and the ATB small takes out way more. I don't usually go crazy about equipment but this skimmer has exceeded my expectations by far.
 
Well, I had a chance to get into it with the skimmer again today. I think the pump needed a chance to 'break in' or something, as my results are slightly higher than they were the first day. I think the impellers must loosen up around the shaft a bit.

Anyways, I have some info on things...

I have been running the 3/8" air intake on the skimmer. I figure this should be okay, as it will lower the water turbulence a little because the skimmer will be taking in more air. So it shouldnt be too much, but a slight increase from 620 to almost 680lph or air. Not that that is a big deal in its own right, but the small increase in air means less water turbulence.

And, I think that the impeller has 'broken in' a little bit. There must be some 'honing' that happens between the impeller and shaft, because the air intake took a slight bump in output to about 730lph of air, not just 680 like before:
34needlewheeland375inchintakebroken.jpg

The skimmer runs well at this amount of air, although I dont know if its up to Anton's standards for minimal turbulence... it is about a 30-45% increase in air output after all. The bubbles dont make it out the outlet though.
38needlewheeland375inchintakebroken.jpg

I have been running it like that for a few days now, with the 3/8" intake. The 'mountain of bubbles' looks good still...
25ATBmountainofbubble.jpg

I had to make a new muffler though, since the old one was too restrictive. I think Anton might end up sending me an actual 3/8" muffler and venturi combo at some point, but in the meantime...
27Silencer1.jpg

28Silencer2.jpg

Filled with Phosguard for sound absorbtion...
29Silencer3.jpg

Capped on the bottom...
30Silencer4.jpg

And it drops right into the standpipe...
31Silencer5andthecruddypot.jpg

I rather like it... it fits with the current design, takes up less space, allows air to breathe into the outlet pipe still, etc. On, and you might have noticed the cruddy pot of filth.

At one time, the skimmer made this in a day...
26ATBspewingchunks.jpg

Now, I have it adjusted to make this every 2 days...
35filthypotover2days.jpg

GAK!
 
GAK!
36filthypot.jpg

37chunks.jpg

^^^ I have circled the above. I dont know if you can see it well, but those are actual chunks of something in the cup. It looks as if the pump sucked in a fish, ground it up, and spit it into the cup almost.

But I 'revisited' the threadwheel as well. I noticed today that the arbor on the impeller for the threadwheel was a bit loose, so I tightened it. My previous tests with the threadwheel must have been with the threads slipping around the arbor of the impeller a little bit, because now, the pump can pull this...
32threadwheeland375inchintakebroken.jpg

Thats right... 1000lph!
The problem is that the added ability for the threadwheel to handle air in the flow means more water flow as well, not just more air (or more air with less water like with just making the air intake larger), and the skimmer looks like this...
33threadwheeland375inchintakebroken.jpg

The skimmer cant handle it. There is a good 100lph or so of air coming out the outlet like this. So unless the US skimmers were to be resized to handle the 60hz pump capacities (which could be up to a 50% increase in area, or from a 7" bubble plate to a 9" bubble plate, which would mean a base plate increase up to 11.5" at the base!), the threadwheel is simply out of the question. Waaay too much water flow along with all that air. Perhaps if Anton makes a custom volute like H&S, or does a face mount union w/ honed out threads on the outlet (outlet to 1-1/8" diameter is the result), and carves out the inside of the pump like a delted a little, this pump could throw 900-1000lph of air w/ just a needlewheel, but without all the water flow. Well see... but frankly, for this size, the ATB needlewheel w/ the 3/8" air intake is the best performance I have seen. I cant compare to the intended 50hz counterpart though. I wonder if I should hook up a 500lph Aquabee 2000/1 (what the 50hz ATB was designed for), maybe I can see what the 'original' was supposed to be like.

Still, I cant complain. After almost 2 weeks now, I can easily say this thing outperforms my previous skimmer. My previous skimmer had all kinds of advantages too... a 30" tall recirc with a Sicce PSK 2500 for 1200lph of air w/ pretty low turbulence (I even had a bubble 'pipe' (a 1" PVC pipe with holes in it like a bubble plate for turbulence reduction). The skimmer was also overflow fed... but it never collected crap like this thing can. The collection cups are about the same size after all, but the ATB just fills with darker, chunkier, and more. Id put this thing up against any eheim 1x1260 powered recirc skimmer. Its just a different beast. It really has me reconsidering my viewpoints on some skimming principles... rather than working all the magic with the path that the bubbles take on the way up by having a tall reaction chamber, this one seems to work more with the foam head more than anything. Beating the water into a froth, and then trapping everything in a mountain of foam... the large chunks say it all... and my previous skimmer wasnt shy in this department exactly... 1200lph of air through a 3.5" neck means alot of air flow going up through the neck... but this thing... its different. Its like its trying to prevent as much crap as possible from being lost during the draining stage in the neck. The effective interface time, dwell time, etc, of the water that is in the 'bubble mountain' is 'as long as needed' to get the crap out. I still cant get over the chunks.

And on a personal note, Anita loves not having 'big smelly' standing next to the tank anymore, and the noise is no longer a problem. This thing is pretty silent. There is a slight hum, no doubt a vibration that my glass sump is resonating... but its very mild and hardly noticable... and in my case, most likely nothing I can even blame the ATB pump for... just the way my sump is.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11039402#post11039402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Al G Blenny
I just got mine. This has to be the best skimmer I have used. I took lots of pics and detailed a time line from when I plugged it in. If anyone wants me to post a thread about it let me know. I don't want to waste RC space if nobody is interested. This skimmer takes out so much gunk. I didn't know I had that much waste in my tank. I was running a Deltec before and the ATB small takes out way more. I don't usually go crazy about equipment but this skimmer has exceeded my expectations by far.

I agree. Please, go ahead and post your pics here for all to see, no need to make a seperate thread. My opinion has been made, so please, it would be great for other users to add their impressions and experiences right here.

I agree... the 'gunk factor' is pretty impressive. Which Deltec were you running, were you the guy with the 851?
 
Nice looking skimmer!!!

Just a few questions.

1) Do you have any pictures of the arbor setup for the thread wheel?

2) Did you notice any stalling/surging of the pump when going to a 3/8" venturi? Was there any valve required on the 3/8" venturi inlet to keep the airflow stable?

3) How about a pic of your 3/8" venturi? Anything special about it?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11039513#post11039513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I agree. Please, go ahead and post your pics here for all to see, no need to make a seperate thread. My opinion has been made, so please, it would be great for other users to add their impressions and experiences right here.
Sorry about the darkness of the Video as there wasn't much light in the cabinet. I was really interested in the ATB Nano, but it took so long to come out that I bought a refurbished ATi BM160 instead. But I still have my eye on the Nano. I stopped by the dealer's to see the Small in action.
ATB Small - Bottom of Cone Body with Eheim Pump

ATB Small - Neck and Collection Cup

 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11041214#post11041214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gem Tang Rider
Nice looking skimmer!!!

Just a few questions.

1) Do you have any pictures of the arbor setup for the thread wheel?

2) Did you notice any stalling/surging of the pump when going to a 3/8" venturi? Was there any valve required on the 3/8" venturi inlet to keep the airflow stable?

3) How about a pic of your 3/8" venturi? Anything special about it?

I can take pics of the arbor setup. As it is though, the threadwheel eheim cant be used on the 'Small' model. Perhaps if there was a model in between the Small and Medium...lol.

Dont have any stalling/surging, no valve required. The venturi is the Euroreef eheim one (pics on previous pages). Ill use that until I can get a 3/8" from Anton. I could just drill the ATB one myself though as well... but like Anton's reason for insisting on sending me one of his pumps rather than I use my own, I will wait on 'official' parts as well rather than making my own. I have no doubt that it will work the same anyways though, with the exception of the air inlet.
 
Hey Hahn,

Any idea if this next round of skimmers they're sending will have the 3/8" airline and venturi?
 
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