Attaching an external overflow

[uncleof6]

Thanks again for the help. When you say "as thin as possible" you are referring to the acrylic sheet, correct? Wouldn't a thicker sheet have less tendency to warp? Or, would a thicker sheet warp with more force and be more likely to pull itself off the back of the tank?

Thinner acrylic will warp faster, and more, than a thicker sheet of acrylic, but warp it will thick or thin. Putting silicone in the middle of the acrylic panel is a wish for dead fish. The silicone in the 'middle' of the panel will never fully cure, the panel will warp, and expose the tank to toxic uncured silicone.

Acrylic is simply a poor material choice around water. Sheet ABS is an option, however once water works its way behind it, which it will inevitably do, it may be a problem, (same with any sheet covering inside the tank.)

 

[mfinn]

Putting silicone in the middle of the acrylic panel is a wish for dead fish. The silicone in the 'middle' of the panel will never fully cure, the panel will warp, and expose the tank to toxic uncured silicone.

I did not lose any fish in 8 years. None
The tank was a very nice softy tank

 

[uncleof6]

I have seen tanks wiped out for this very reason. Everyone's experience level is different.

 

[Leanan]

Thinner acrylic will warp faster, and more, than a thicker sheet of acrylic, but warp it will thick or thin. Putting silicone in the middle of the acrylic panel is a wish for dead fish. The silicone in the 'middle' of the panel will never fully cure, the panel will warp, and expose the tank to toxic uncured silicone.

Acrylic is simply a poor material choice around water. Sheet ABS is an option, however once water works its way behind it, which it will inevitably do, it may be a problem, (same with any sheet covering inside the tank.)

So if I go with a piece of glass instead and seal all of the edges with silicone, you still think that water would work its way behind the glass over time?

 

[Leanan]

I did not lose any fish in 8 years. None
The tank was a very nice softy tank

Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind - how thick of a piece of acrylic did you use?

 

[ca1ore]

Frankly, if I were you, I would just attach an external glass overflow, paint the rear of the tank black and then insert a small piece of black acrylic into the overflow so that it blocks your view into the overflow.

 

[uncleof6]

So if I go with a piece of glass instead and seal all of the edges with silicone, you still think that water would work its way behind the glass over time?

Why would you do that? Honestly, I am having a hard time getting a grasp on the logic of pulling hair out to hide an external overflow... I do get it, however...

You can slide a sheet of black glass in there, if you seal all four edges, water will not likely get behind it (silicone sticks to glass better than any plastic) But I think you may have trouble finding black glass at a reasonable cost, aka a thin sheet of black glass. Table top material, shower door material is what you will likely find easiest, but you have to grab it before it gets tempered.

You can paint the inside of the tank back glass, if you want to spend ~$300+ per gallon for a paint that will actually stick to the glass. You could do the same for the portion of the overflow that does not need to hold to the back glass, and use an oil base black rustoleum for the rest of the back.

You can have the tank rebuilt using a black glass back panel. I built a 325 with a black glass back panel, 1" thick...( I upcharged the client for insisting they were right, and added two lamps to the light module....1 would have sufficed, but two to keep the balance.)

(Remember that doing things like this, reduces the amount of light available in the tank.)

There is a thing called 'stage affect' which is the tendency for black objects on the stage to 'disappear.' An internal black C2C high up on the back of the tank, will 'disappear,' and your rock structure will obscure most of the view of the back panel, making things blend together...the only light that will get 'blocked' would be at the back of the tank, (not nearly as much as one would think due to reflectance from the back panel) but there shouldn't be rock/life in the back 4" of the tank anyway, other than free swimming.

If you are not inclined to be diligent in keeping the back glass free of coralline, all of this is moot anyway.

 

[Leanan]

Why would you do that? Honestly, I am having a hard time getting a grasp on the logic of pulling hair out to hide an external overflow... I do get it, however...

You can slide a sheet of black glass in there, if you seal all four edges, water will not likely get behind it (silicone sticks to glass better than any plastic) But I think you may have trouble finding black glass at a reasonable cost, aka a thin sheet of black glass. Table top material, shower door material is what you will likely find easiest, but you have to grab it before it gets tempered.

You can paint the inside of the tank back glass, if you want to spend ~$300+ per gallon for a paint that will actually stick to the glass. You could do the same for the portion of the overflow that does not need to hold to the back glass, and use an oil base black rustoleum for the rest of the back.

You can have the tank rebuilt using a black glass back panel. I built a 325 with a black glass back panel, 1" thick...( I upcharged the client for insisting they were right, and added two lamps to the light module....1 would have sufficed, but two to keep the balance.)

(Remember that doing things like this, reduces the amount of light available in the tank.)

There is a thing called 'stage affect' which is the tendency for black objects on the stage to 'disappear.' An internal black C2C high up on the back of the tank, will 'disappear,' and your rock structure will obscure most of the view of the back panel, making things blend together...the only light that will get 'blocked' would be at the back of the tank, (not nearly as much as one would think due to reflectance from the back panel) but there shouldn't be rock/life in the back 4" of the tank anyway, other than free swimming.

If you are not inclined to be diligent in keeping the back glass free of coralline, all of this is moot anyway.

My goal is to have the external overflow invisible from inside the tank because a clean, minimalist look is very important to me and since I'm having to go with a smaller tank than I had originally hoped (just 50 gallons) I'd like as much space within the tank as possible (hence the external overflow). I also prefer the look of a lighter blue background instead of black, and I'll definitely be keeping the back glass clean. Obviously this is a combination that is going to be difficult to pull off so I that's why I started this thread to help me brainstorm! This has been very helpful though, and I really appreciate being able to get some advice from people with much, much more experience than me.

If I go with the clear glass "layer" inside the tank, why is it important that it not be tempered?

 

[uncleof6]

My goal is to have the external overflow invisible from inside the tank because a clean, minimalist look is very important to me and since I'm having to go with a smaller tank than I had originally hoped (just 50 gallons) I'd like as much space within the tank as possible (hence the external overflow). I also prefer the look of a lighter blue background instead of black, and I'll definitely be keeping the back glass clean. Obviously this is a combination that is going to be difficult to pull off so I that's why I started this thread to help me brainstorm! This has been very helpful though, and I really appreciate being able to get some advice from people with much, much more experience than me.

If I go with the clear glass "layer" inside the tank, why is it important that it not be tempered?

Because it is going to have to be cut before it will fit in the tank..... glass comes in 4 x 8 sheets (larger as well.) Table tops and shower doors are tempered... Once it is tempered there will be no cutting the glass. I was talking about black glass, clear glass, well again...this is getting a bit carried away...

For your plan you are going to have to notch the back of the tank. A rimmed tank? No, you won't be notching the back of the tank, because it will harm the structural integrity of the tank. Notching the back glass is not something I recommend that you do yourself, so there is additional expense, if it is a rimless; whatever you use to hide the overflow will have to be notched as well. Something I did not think about before, if you notch the back (and insert) water is going to get between the panels, despite efforts to keep it out.

As for the minimalist look, a C2C is about as minimal as it is going to get, after all you will have returns in the tank, power heads in the tank, so what you are looking for is rather like unobtanium. We haven't even really gotten into the performance (needs of the system) yet....which I don't think your plan is taking into account either.

 

[Reefpilot11]

Drill it

 

[Leanan]

Because it is going to have to be cut before it will fit in the tank..... glass comes in 4 x 8 sheets (larger as well.) Table tops and shower doors are tempered... Once it is tempered there will be no cutting the glass. I was talking about black glass, clear glass, well again...this is getting a bit carried away...

For your plan you are going to have to notch the back of the tank. A rimmed tank? No, you won't be notching the back of the tank, because it will harm the structural integrity of the tank. Notching the back glass is not something I recommend that you do yourself, so there is additional expense, if it is a rimless; whatever you use to hide the overflow will have to be notched as well. Something I did not think about before, if you notch the back (and insert) water is going to get between the panels, despite efforts to keep it out.

As for the minimalist look, a C2C is about as minimal as it is going to get, after all you will have returns in the tank, power heads in the tank, so what you are looking for is rather like unobtanium. We haven't even really gotten into the performance (needs of the system) yet....which I don't think your plan is taking into account either.

Ok, that makes sense about the glass. And I assumed if I'm able to go through with this, I would get the tank notched; I've seen rimless tanks that are notched before, is that an issue structurally speaking? I'll be having the tank custom made so I wouldn't be the one notching it. And yeah, the water getting between the panels would be a major concern.

If it seems like this simply isn't going to work, then yes I'll go with the C2C overflow. My overall plan does include the performance needs of the system, my idea with this thread was simply to see if it would be possible to get the look that I'd like for the background/overflow.

 

[uncleof6]

Ok, that makes sense about the glass. And I assumed if I'm able to go through with this, I would get the tank notched; I've seen rimless tanks that are notched before, is that an issue structurally speaking? I'll be having the tank custom made so I wouldn't be the one notching it. And yeah, the water getting between the panels would be a major concern.

If I had to say that a notch in a rimless tank, would be the sole contributing factor to a tank failure, I could not do so...bit it would depend on how the notch was put in. If they came after it with a dremel and stone/file, I would put the ichtsnay on that pretty quick. If they went after it with a water jet, I would be pretty impressed.

If you are having the tank custom built, why not have them deal with the overflow, by using a colored back glass... and having them install the overflow? Instant headache relief...

If it seems like this simply isn't going to work, then yes I'll go with the C2C overflow. My overall plan does include the performance needs of the system, my idea with this thread was simply to see if it would be possible to get the look that I'd like for the background/overflow.

By far the simplest, and least expensive is the C2C, and the most effective, though a close to C2C notch in the back is not that far off...run your plumbing close to the ends of the tank, same with lighting wires, and I doubt you will see much clutter, with a clear back glass.

 

[Leanan]

I've had a difficult time finding information about using colored glass as a structural part of a tank; I found one tank that used 10mm black glass for the back, but haven't seen any other tanks using it. Any idea what's available, or how I can find out? I emailed a couple of custom tank builders but haven't had much luck getting answers back.

Also, if I go with a C2C overflow I might do it myself to save some cash - any recommendations on what kind of glass would work? Non tempered I assume - any idea on minimum thickness? Any recommendations for a place online that sells the right kind of glass? I assume the more "artsy" glasses would be out, like anything that's colored? I Googled "sheet glass" and lots of stained glass places came up, for example.

 

[uncleof6]

Well, like I said, the easiest is going to be a smoked or black (dark green) glass loaded with iron oxide. You will have a hard time finding anything else, and that does not mean it would be any easier for me.

For the overflow, 6mm, 9mm float glass (reqular, standard, plate, whatever name is used.

Perhaps you should just email A.G.E. info@acrylicandglassexhibits.com, tell them what you are wanting.

 

[Leanan]

Will do, thanks again for your help.