Attn: Randy-bio pellets

[sowildpaul]

Maybe that's a stupid question but I wonder, why not having a bio-pellet reactor output to an UV sterilizer instead? Will it not destroy those unwanted bacteria?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A UV will kill them. Is that desirable? The dead bacteria will then break down and release its nutrients back to the water faster than a live one.

Are they "unwanted"? They may be good food for many creatures.

 

[Boa1277]

A UV will kill them. Is that desirable? The dead bacteria will then break down and release its nutrients back to the water faster than a live one.

Are they "unwanted"? They may be good food for many creatures.

With that being said, Is it or is it not a good idea to run UV with Bio Pellets? Is the whole idea to release the bacteria back into the water column, at least any that the skimmer is not able to process?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't do it. Assuming they are caused by organic carbon additions (rather than a sick fish or other creature as a source), I would rather have live bacteria in the water than dead ones.

 

[Aqualund]

I've used both for quite some time, and learned my lesson on foregoing the UV in favor of desirable bacteria...I lost nearly every fish in my maintenance crew throughout my coral farm. All told, a loss of 25 different tang varieties to Ich. It was sudden, quick and effective...after not running the UV for 60 days. So I went back to the tried and true process i did for 2 years prior and ran both. Still enjoy 2ppm nitrate and zero Ich...but that's just my experience.

On my personal DT at home I don't run UV...so I know both can be achieved.

 

[sowildpaul]

What about this? I just read it yesterday.

Helpful Tips

Remove GFO during the initial phases of the seeding of the reactor.

Allow 8 weeks before making adjustments to the reactor Additions of bacteria supplements can help diversify the bacteria.

Remove UV sterilizers.

Make sure your skimmer is running at full efficiency and the effluent of the reactor is directed towards the skimmer feed pump

Keep the reactor in a dark area away from light

http://marinemadness.net/index.php/...e-bio-pellets-1-gallon-3764-ml-bulk-size.html


Have to remove UV permanently or temporarily while running BP?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is someones advice. It is not a law, and while I agree with it, I'm sure you can have a fine tank with a UV while using organic carbon. I expect you could also go skimmerless when using organic carbon, but most people also recommend against that. Both will just changes the overall process.

 

[KrazyOnetime]

Could this Cyno issue situation be somewhat averted by soaking the pellets longer than the "24hr recommendation" in SW inoculated with a bacterial product?................. And not to go way off track but Randy have you heard of culturing the bacteria (name escapes me atm) which convert Nitrate to nitrogen gas using 38-5-5 Lawn Fertilizer. The question relates because I'm going to attempt to culture these and they seem perfect for soaking the pellets in.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wasn't aware of that inoculation procedure. I don't know if it will help with the potential for release of hydroxybutyrate, but I suppose it might.

What is the goal of culturing those bacteria? If they are not raised on pellets, the process may not develop bacteria capable of breaking down polyhydroxybutyrate. Most ordinary bacteria probably cannot.

 

[KrazyOnetime]

I can post a link to the specifics of the culturing process, I'd love to hear your feedback. The process is along the lines of culturing phytoplankton and dosing it to the tank when necessary/ideal. In this case it is the same type of aerobic bacteria that convert nitrate into nitrogen gas that grow and feed on pellets except in concentrated form suspended SW in mason jars and I want them to always have the "upper hand" in my tank as I intend on dosing vinegar and want to create a vast nitrate exporting bacterial population. At the moment Diatoms and Cyano seem to have a bit of a foot hold due to a current 30-35ppm NO3 in the water column. The Cyano started after using Bio-Pellets to lower NO3 from VERY HIGH NO3 (off the API chart) and .05 PO4.....long story. Hanna says PO4=0.00 Currently.

Upon rereading the thread it appears as if I was mistaken this is for culturing an anaerobic Bacteria not aerobic. Well it sounded great up until this realization. I figured I could dose along with the vinegar to hold off all other "unwanted algae."

Here is the link to the RC thread:http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1782842&highlight=philbo32

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I've thought of a similar thing (discussed in some ancient thread somewhere), but I suggested collecting all the bacteria that grew on my GAC when I dosed large amounts of vinegar. It could be perfect for seeding another tank or a culture medium to outcompete cyano, should that be necessary, when also dosing vinegar.

 

[asylumdown]

One thing that's always made me suspicious about where this bacterial action is taking place is the loooooong lead in time for a reactor to start working. To the best of my knowledge, the heterotrophic bacteria that typically consume organic carbon reproduce very quickly. Like once every 20 minutes to 2 hours. If they were really consuming the pellets in the actual reactor, why does it take weeks to months for them to meaningfully reduce nitrate? It seems more like the pellets go in, and then start sloughing, whether that be through enzymatic action, or exposure to water, or just getting knocked in to each other, and that the nitrates don't start to fall until the organic carbon levels in the actual tank water get high enough to support system wide bacterial colonies.

Plus, you never see so much as a speck of mulm in most reactors. If there was enough bacterial growth happening inside the physical reactor to take a fully stocked tank from high nitrates to undetectable nitrates, you'd think the reactor would be a soupy mess of bits of mulm.

 

[Aqualund]

One thing that's always made me suspicious about where this bacterial action is taking place is the loooooong lead in time for a reactor to start working. To the best of my knowledge, the heterotrophic bacteria that typically consume organic carbon reproduce very quickly. Like once every 20 minutes to 2 hours. If they were really consuming the pellets in the actual reactor, why does it take weeks to months for them to meaningfully reduce nitrate? It seems more like the pellets go in, and then start sloughing, whether that be through enzymatic action, or exposure to water, or just getting knocked in to each other, and that the nitrates don't start to fall until the organic carbon levels in the actual tank water get high enough to support system wide bacterial colonies.

Plus, you never see so much as a speck of mulm in most reactors. If there was enough bacterial growth happening inside the physical reactor to take a fully stocked tank from high nitrates to undetectable nitrates, you'd think the reactor would be a soupy mess of bits of mulm.

could depend on the amount of nitrates versus the effective bacterial population. As for the "mulm," I dunno, I've had to clean my reactor out pretty regularly...like once a month. The stuff lines the inside of the pipes and reduces its efficiency.

 

[asylumdown]

Exactly, in your pipes, probably thickest in the effluent line? If the "action" was taking place on the pellets, why do thick biofilms develop in the pipes? It was the same in my reactor. My inlet would remain relatively clean, but the effluent line developed a thick coating. To me that seems to be the strongest evidence that it's the carbon that leaves the reactor that's doing all the work.

 

[Relativity]

Here is my tank after using to much zeostart3 and bio pellets.
The second picture is the tank after using uv for a night
I use a biochurn 120r that spins the pellets heavily.

 

[KrazyOnetime]

Exactly, in your pipes, probably thickest in the effluent line? If the "action" was taking place on the pellets, why do thick biofilms develop in the pipes? It was the same in my reactor. My inlet would remain relatively clean, but the effluent line developed a thick coating. To me that seems to be the strongest evidence that it's the carbon that leaves the reactor that's doing all the work.

The "BP system" is designed to slough off the built up bacterial colonization to make room for more to feed and grow on the pellet(s), that's why it's vital to have the output go directly to a very good skimmer. In this situation (clogged up effluent tubes) and others similar to it is the very reason IMO it's vital to have separate control over fluidization of the pellets and flow of water through the reactor itself (Re-circulating). The fix for the above situation and any where bacterial colonies/mulm are clogging up reactors or effluent tubes is to turn up the flow a little. Optimum setting would be the mulm making it right to the end of the effluent tube into the skimmer.

 

[KrazyOnetime]

could depend on the amount of nitrates versus the effective bacterial population. As for the "mulm," I dunno, I've had to clean my reactor out pretty regularly...like once a month. The stuff lines the inside of the pipes and reduces its efficiency.

Your exactly right IMO.......FME I had NO3 off the API chart 160+ppm and PO4 of 0.05ppm. I soaked my BP's for 24hrs in SW inoculated w/ MB-7 and then started my DIY recirculating reactor I made from a LG Kalk Reactor. Within between week 3 and 4 I was noticing a substantial decrease in Nitrates on a continual basis. It started to actually ramp up and I slowed it down so as to not "shock" any SPS. The more NO3 the faster it'll work. Mulm build up is a direct result of lack of water flow through the reactor. A tough issue when you have a design similar to any regular media reactor. (in-out)

 

[KrazyOnetime]

FWIW, I've thought of a similar thing (discussed in some ancient thread somewhere), but I suggested collecting all the bacteria that grew on my GAC when I dosed large amounts of vinegar. It could be perfect for seeding another tank or a culture medium to outcompete cyano, should that be necessary, when also dosing vinegar.

I remembered you mentioning at some point that you would get a lot of IIRC "white" bacteria built up in your carbon reactor from vinegar dosing. It made me think of running my Lg media reactor filled w/carbon specifically for this purpose and never change it. Are they denitrifying bacteria?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I remembered you mentioning at some point that you would get a lot of IIRC "white" bacteria built up in your carbon reactor from vinegar dosing. It made me think of running my Lg media reactor filled w/carbon specifically for this purpose and never change it. Are they denitrifying bacteria?

The bacteria growing there certainly consume N and P, but whether they are actually denitrifying bacteria, I do not know.

 

[KrazyOnetime]

Interesting..??