Audit my quarantine plans for my 300G reef please

zachtos

zachtos

Active member
I'm new to Quarantine procedure, but I've been in the hobby 15 years, just always dealt with the illness problems in my old 240G SPS tank.

So, I had a 2.5" powder blue tang and 2.5" christmas wrasse die in my 40 QT tank last night and I don't know what I did wrong. They were housed with a good sized harlequin tusk, 4x 2" smaller fairy wrasse, 1.5" kole tang, 1.5" hippo tang, 8x 1.5" lyretail anthias. So tank does not look crowded, but something must be wrong.

*40G has sponge filter w/air, HoB skimmer w/ mag5, PVC hideaways, digital temp control, LED light fixture
*20G has sponge filter w/ air, maxijet 1200, PVC hideaways, digital temp control (no light yet)
*10G has sponge filter w/ air, maxijet 400, PVC hideaways, digital temp control (no light yet)

It has live rock in for now, which I plan to remove and then do 1 week prazipro, then formalin bath, then 1 week cupramine, then 1 week prazi pro, then maracyn 2 if needed (bacterial). I will run copper at 0.35ppm instead of 0.5ppm for angels at end.

I plan to take shipment 1 and 2 below this weekend. Then 3 and 4 in a month after first batches leaves QT.

Shipment 1 (20G QT)
6-10 royal grammas

Shipment 2 (10G QT)
2 clown goby
2 cleaner goby

Shipment 2 (40G QT)
4 Pyramid Butteryfly
1 Powder blue tang
1 Foxface rabbit fish

Shipment 3 (20G QT)
1 Red Head Solomon Fairy Wrasse
1 Fine Spotted Fairy Wrasse
(2-3 other Fairy/Flasher Wrasse that are OK w/ no sand bed and won't fight other wrasse)

Shipment 4 (40G QT)
4-6 M coral beauty dwarf angel and F harem
2 total (M-F pair) regal angel
 
I don't know if I'm reading this correctly but reads like you had 17 fish in a 40b!?!


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lifeoffaith said:
Yeah, I definitely think you have too many fish in that 40B if what you input above is correct.
Click to expand...

They are all small, but as mentioned, new to QT process. Are there rules of thumb like in FW of 1 inch per gallon or anything of the like? It's less complicated than a reef since nothing but water and a piece of foam.

Is it just about keeping ammonia and nitrite at zero, otherwise fine?
 
I would not QT more than 1-2 fish at a time, regardless of the size of the QT. As you increase the number of fish in QT, your risk for disease increases. All it takes is for one fish to bring in something like velvet and you're back at square one (which is possibly what happened to your PBT and wrasse). Best to take your time and add fish slowly. Nothing good happens quickly in this hobby.
 
Hmm, Well I was hoping the cured/cooked live rock and established bioballs in the skimmer return chamber would have been enough to keep ammonia/nitrite safe (+10 days running w/ DT water).

I would not add new fish to the QT, just a batch of fish in one tank every 3 weeks, then next batch.

Can I keep all my bio filtration in tact if I plan to use the quarantine tank for the next batch of fish? Considering I'm using copper/prazi/formalin dips?
 
All your bio filtration will be killed off if you use treat the fish with copper etc... That's why the recommendation is not to have sand or live rock in a QT tank in the event it needs to be treated. Also, the sand and live rock would make it harder to see if you have pests and stuff... I would recommend lots of pvc elbows for the fish to hide in.
 
hotdamn said:
All your bio filtration will be killed off if you use treat the fish with copper etc... That's why the recommendation is not to have sand or live rock in a QT tank in the event it needs to be treated. Also, the sand and live rock would make it harder to see if you have pests and stuff... I would recommend lots of pvc elbows for the fish to hide in.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I did this weekend. Now there are 1 or 2 sponge filters per tank. I actually lost every single fish I bought (around $500) to maybe ich or velvet. I have not figured out yet, spots all over them that looked like sand, too dense for ich I thought. I was hoping to wait another week for the foam filters to be more stable before dosing copper but too late now. I am confused if cupramine and prazi pro will kill the sponge filters too?

I assume maracyn 2 would kill filters, in that case how would you keep ammonia out of a hospital tank...

I was trying to follow this article, but it did not work because I could not even make it to day 7 and everything was already dead before beginning copper... expensive lesson, and now I have no idea what is next. I guess a boring vacant display tank for 2 more months? Tired of QT already honestly.
 
If you saw white spots on them I'd treat immediately, and not wait for anything. If you need to you can use ammonia neutralizer, just watch ammonia. I'd us chloroquine phosphate.. (New life spectrum Ich Shield: Powder) instead of copper.. its safer and easier on the fish.. but can't be used on some wrasses, pipefish, seahorses.

as soon as you see any sign of sickness treat right away..

also.. test ammonia regularly after adding fish to any system is my rule. (i usually do it before and after work). for the first few days.. then i slow down testing as long as ammonia isn't going crazy. I also keep a bottle of ammonia detoxifier on hand.. that is a lot of fish in a small tank.
 
Last edited:
Mishri said:
If you saw white spots on them I'd treat immediately, and not wait for anything. If you need to you can use ammonia neutralizer, just watch ammonia. I'd us chloroquine phosphate.. (New life spectrum Ich Shield: Powder) instead of copper.. its safer and easier on the fish.. but can't be used on some wrasses, pipefish, seahorses.

as soon as you see any sign of sickness treat right away..

also.. test ammonia regularly after adding fish to any system is my rule. (i usually do it before and after work). for the first few days.. then i slow down testing as long as ammonia isn't going crazy. I also keep a bottle of ammonia detoxifier on hand.. that is a lot of fish in a small tank.
Click to expand...

How does one deal with Ammonia if you want to use copper treatment?

Sounds like if I use prazipro or cupramine I can't use ammonia detoxifiers, and even if I did, how could you be there all the time to monitor the ammonia value to be ready to add?

Or do you just rely on the sponge filters (even w/ copper running)?
 
What about using:

PARAGUARD in place of CUPRAMINE (parasites)
and then using PRIME to keep ammonia down?

Will this be equally effective? I am not sure if ammonia/nitrite poisoning occured in conjunction with ich/velvet for sure... I just don't know if I can have so much bioload with 2 sponge filters and stability squirted in daily versus chemical control of ammonia?
 
Basically I would do the tank transfer method first. During the transfers do formalin baths and treat with prazi pro.(Google how to do this if you don't know how, there are some great threads on this forum and another one)

Then into the qt tank and treat with chloroquine phosphate, again there are more experienced people than myself who have done some great write ups. Google chloroquine phosphate use for quarantine marine fish.

This is basically a bullet proof quarantine routine if you ask me. If I had the space I would do this.


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Taahirs said:
Basically I would do the tank transfer method first. During the transfers do formalin baths and treat with prazi pro.(Google how to do this if you don't know how, there are some great threads on this forum and another one)

Then into the qt tank and treat with chloroquine phosphate, again there are more experienced people than myself who have done some great write ups. Google chloroquine phosphate use for quarantine marine fish.

This is basically a bullet proof quarantine routine if you ask me. If I had the space I would do this.


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Click to expand...

I have read about the TTM quite a bit, and while I agree it may work, it is impractical for my daily life(space usage and time usage), and I know I won't be able to follow it to the Tee, so I won't even try. Knowing that is the case, let's stick with chemical treatment that would be recommend.

chloroquine phosphate - I will look into this a bit, but not sure how different this would be vs. cuppramine, which I already bought.
 


Quarantine chemical plans:
-dip in Formalin MS 45 min
-Cupramine + stability 2 weeks
-+2 week prazipro
-+1 week maracyn 2 (undecided on this)

(or maybe cupramine and prazipro at same time sounds safe?)
-so Cupramine, prazipro, stability 2 weeks
-1 week maracyn 2 (undecided)
-1 week observation

*bayer insect killer for corals as dip, not done researching yet.
-ridich/reefdip/lugols are leftover
-kitchen scale



Dead fish from unknown disease (7 days from healthy to dead while in prazipro / observation treatment) Velvet?







QT tanks with extra sponge filters setup on air pumps (skimmer cup and airline removed during meds), first step was prazipro and stability (bacteria). Did not work, did not see ammonia spike. Some nitrite was present one day and I did large WC but things still went down hill. I guess I should have ran copper right away and started with formaldehyde dip on the infested powder blue? (I thought it was ich, but maybe not?)

 
If you don't want to test for ammonia you can buy an ammonia alert badge, just stick in the tank and every time you look and you'll know.

you can use an ammonia detoxifier with prazipro and chlorquine phosphate. but you are right, you can't with cupramine (another reason why you shouldn't use it).. you could do hyposalinity for ich..

17 fish at once in a 40 gallon tank, even small fish with 2 sponge filters to me doesn't sound like enough filtration.. I'd do far fewer fish... for that many fish I'd consider putting on 2 of my fluval 305 canister filters to deal with that bio load.. pet stores that put that many fish in a small tank usually have massive behind the scenes filtration.
 
This isn't a Qt question, but 6-10 royal grammas? You will end up with one. I know in nature they school together, but in even a 300 gallon they will be territorial. I tried it in my 250. Lasted 2 weeks.
 
hotdamn said:
All your bio filtration will be killed off if you use treat the fish with copper etc... That's why the recommendation is not to have sand or live rock in a QT tank in the event it needs to be treated. Also, the sand and live rock would make it harder to see if you have pests and stuff... I would recommend lots of pvc elbows for the fish to hide in.
Click to expand...

That is a myth. Copper does not kill all beneficial bacteria. It only kills the free floating ones. The ones that establish themselves on hard surfaces are fine. Also, the bacteria over time will adapt to the copper and continue to thrive and reproduce.
 
You don't need a lot of space for TTM. I do it with 5g buckets.

Do a few fish at a time. Dr Foster n Smith has or had a sale on bulk IO salt. Or find the cheapest salt you can find.

Conditioned tap water is fine, they will only be in it for less than 3 days.

Match salinity to the water the fish is coming in at. Adjust as you move them b/w buckets.

Formalin dip incoming fish, treat with Parizopro 2 n 3rd transfers.


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