Automatic titrator
- Thread starter cyrilp
- Start date
disc1
-RT * ln(k)
I've been giving it thought but only because I have a lot of cool spare fluidics parts laying around at work. I don't know that I'd be doing anything that could be replicated en mass by the DIY crowd.
I did once build a spectrophotometer in a shoebox. I'll have to dig up that thread.
EDIT: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2094599
I did once build a spectrophotometer in a shoebox. I'll have to dig up that thread.
EDIT: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2094599
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ColtonMeng
New member
Has a relatively definitive release date been posted for the Mindstream device? I'll definitely be picking one up as soon as possible.
Just imagine if you can dial these in with a doser controller via Apex. Your system would never be off!
Colton
Just imagine if you can dial these in with a doser controller via Apex. Your system would never be off!
Colton
David, that's great stuff, it's clearly possible as cyrilp and you have demonstrated to build a device for sub $500 that suitable for our purposes using classic methods ( for personal purposes, by economy of scale also for wider purposes!).
So why today do we not have such a unit? automated lab units still cost circ 10K+, we simply need the same or equivalent to manual tests.
Mindstorm is too leftfield, it's going to take a logical thinking German company to bring this to market. Clearly too much effort for the short thinking Brit and Yank organisations.
If I was a betting man, i see an Asian manufacturer taking the lead on this front, whatever happened to taking the lead in market innovation?
I appreciate it's not a massive market, but it's worth circ $3m IMCO, not big bucks , but surely worth a punt for someone with the time and energy!
lots of open source projects in the field already
, to get you juices flowing here is one of my favourites http://www.iorodeo.com/colorimeter.
lots of genius reefers in the field, so go on, follow in the footsteps of Cyrilp and make a worthwhile difference to the hobby!
So why today do we not have such a unit? automated lab units still cost circ 10K+, we simply need the same or equivalent to manual tests.
Mindstorm is too leftfield, it's going to take a logical thinking German company to bring this to market. Clearly too much effort for the short thinking Brit and Yank organisations.
If I was a betting man, i see an Asian manufacturer taking the lead on this front, whatever happened to taking the lead in market innovation?
I appreciate it's not a massive market, but it's worth circ $3m IMCO, not big bucks , but surely worth a punt for someone with the time and energy!
lots of open source projects in the field already
, to get you juices flowing here is one of my favourites http://www.iorodeo.com/colorimeter.lots of genius reefers in the field, so go on, follow in the footsteps of Cyrilp and make a worthwhile difference to the hobby!
Fieroguy19
New member
I started building an automated testing device using arduino and some lab quality fluidic parts from eBay. I basically setup a diy spectrophotometer with an led and light sensor. Got it working with testing Alk automatically using both Hanna reagents and homemade reagents. I started working on calcium and phosphate, but then the mindstream was announced so I quit working on it.
The mindstream may seem "leftfield", but it is the most direct and simple way to test multiple parameters automatically. The tech they are using comes from the biotech field and should work well once they get the bugs worked out. The main challenge for them will be getting their sensors to accurately measure the full 90 days that they claim. I am willing to bet the sensors will change over time, requiring some type of auto calibration during the 90 day period.
The mindstream may seem "leftfield", but it is the most direct and simple way to test multiple parameters automatically. The tech they are using comes from the biotech field and should work well once they get the bugs worked out. The main challenge for them will be getting their sensors to accurately measure the full 90 days that they claim. I am willing to bet the sensors will change over time, requiring some type of auto calibration during the 90 day period.
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So why today do we not have such a unit? automated lab units still cost circ 10K+, we simply need the same or equivalent to manual tests.
Is having an automatic alkalinity titration really that useful? How hard is it to watch the pH when adding titrant?
That said, if you really want one, Hanna sells one for about $700
Is having an automatic alkalinity titration really that useful? How hard is it to watch the pH when adding titrant?
That said, if you really want one, Hanna sells one for about $700
ColtonMeng
New member
Is having an automatic alkalinity titration really that useful? How hard is it to watch the pH when adding titrant?
That said, if you really want one, Hanna sells one for about $700
Alkalinity alone? no thanks. One that can test calcium, magnesium and alkalinity all automatically, daily? absolutely. I'd pay some $$ for that.
15 minutes a pop, two to three days a week. I value my free time at $500.00 / hour.
:lol::dance:
disc1
-RT * ln(k)
Wish my boss saw it that way...
to an extent i agree, however organisations with a more serious purpose and budget have been attempting this for a decade (it's not new technology) and we have yet to see a product of this nature. I wish them the best, however having read some papers I do not believe it's as simple as they make out. Here's a link to the patent FWIW.
http://stks.freshpatents.com/Step-Ahead-Innovations-Inc-nm1.php
from what i have seen, there are a hundreds of patents based in similar ideas, the Q is who comes to market first with even a suboptimal device!
Exciting days, a few challenges, it's a matter of time, i can't however see it in the next 2 years.
if using a balanced method then Alk alone should be adequate for most
P and N would be great also to control other mechanisms, the rest IMHO is simply a great addition. Temp, Salinity and PH is taken as a given. DOC, DOM and POM is for another day!
You are definitely undervaluing your time
, One target is to be able to be away and be on top of the game,invaluable!Like I said, i really wished we had the old days of research grants to our universities to 'assist' undergraduates to create 'venture capital' worthwhile projects. This is what is stopping innovation IMHO, it's a very short-sighted measure as we have some excellent undergrads in the UK ( as I'm sure is the case in the rest of the world). Times change I guess, it will work itself out.
Don't want to keep banging the point, but hats of to CyrilP for showing what potentially ANYONE can do off their own back! Now, that IS the LAND of Opportunity!
If your boss only knew what you did:fun2:
ColtonMeng
New member
if using a balanced method then Alk alone should be adequate for most
I hear ya- but as of now my dosing regimen is nearly twice the alk as compared to calcium. Not entirely sure why, but my alk is dropping significantly faster than my calcium.
< incoming flame about precipitation >
I've already checked. All pumps running optimally with no fallout noticeable in sump or DT.
I know it's going somewhere. Just need to figure out where...
Colton
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Water changes can do that. Many mixes have relatively higher alkalinity than calcium.
ColtonMeng
New member
Other way around for me though^
I'm having to dose more alk to keep up with calcium levels. Running red sea coral pro salt, fwiw.
bloody expensive, but I'm a fan of their product quality.
I'm having to dose more alk to keep up with calcium levels. Running red sea coral pro salt, fwiw.
bloody expensive, but I'm a fan of their product quality.
Oh, OK.
I discuss reasons for imbalances here:
When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm
I discuss reasons for imbalances here:
When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm
