Baby Bangaii Cardinals Saved - What Now??? Help

[mwp]

What TYPE of babies are you feeding brine shrimp eggs to? Everyone and their mother knows brine shrimp egg shells can kill fish, and unhatched non-decapped aren't digetible.

Of course, decapped eggs (if you trust them, which I wouldn't) could be fed, but how are you going to "enrich" an unhatched egg with the appropriate HUFA's to prevent Sudden Death Syndrome that's common in Baby Bangaiis?

Matt

 

[dark_stranger]

The babies are cardinals (subject of this thread) & i never once mentioned feeding them shelled eggs, as you have clearly stated the shells are harmful to fish. Ok, its not an ideal diet, but when needs must a mixture of hatched/unhatched bbs will provide enough nutriants to ensure they survive. Additionally, I have never enriched the bbs as I feel that the newly hatch shrimp & egg sacks are enough.

 

[mwp]

All I can say is that it's rather well documented in both clownfish and Bangaii cardinalfish that without enrichment, shock-related deaths do occur, and that enrichment helps reduce or eliminate this problem.

FWIW,

Matt

 

[mwp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8557407#post8557407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dark_stranger
You may get lucky and they may take the eggs. Remember to pour the eggs in tank water & then syringe in, dont add directly from the bottle. I doute they will take frozen just yet, I normally get them on frozen after a couple of weeks.

Could be taken as a suggestion to feed unhatched eggs. For someone who's not familiar with the difference between Decapped and regular cysts, could be very misunderstood, as most shops don't carry decapsulated brine shrimp eggs.

FWIW,

Matt

 

[aomont]

Matt, talking about enrinchment, I´ve read about enriching BBS. Is this the non-feeding stage ? If so, not very different from decaped eggs... Just writting before searching, but will do it now.
Anderson.

 

[sharla1234]

O.K.
Thanks for all the help. Babies are all still fine. Just got back from the LFS. I got:
BBS (most are hatched, seems there are still some eggs in the water?)
FROZEN ROTIFERS
FROZEN BABY MYSIS

Just fed a little of BBS. Saw a couple eat it.
Should I feed the baby rotifers since all brines aren't hatched? There are some things floating with them that I think are eggs.?
Also, don't want to overfeed. Can't tell how much or if they've eaten cyclopeeze already.
Hmmmm

 

[TomRep]

They could be the shells of the eggs floating in the water.
Tom

 

[mwp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8561918#post8561918 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aomont
Matt, talking about enrinchment, I´ve read about enriching BBS. Is this the non-feeding stage ? If so, not very different from decaped eggs... Just writting before searching, but will do it now.
Anderson.

At normal temps, about 6 hours after they hatch they shed and start feeding, at that point they will take up enrichments like selcon / phyto. Someone has also told me that selcon will stick the the outside of the nauplii as it swims around - if that's the case (which I'm not sure) then MAYBE enrichment would work with decapped eggs as well. Unfortunately, msot newly hatched/released babies need the movement to stimulate feeding, but obviously Bangaiis could be an exception to that rule.

FWIW,

Matt

 

[aomont]

Yes Matt ! Just passed by this information also. Don´t know if the sticking thing works really this way. But if it does maybe decaped eggs could be coated as well. As for the bangais, what I´ve read goes against no motile feeds.
Anderson.

 

[dark_stranger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8561914#post8561914 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
as most shops don't carry decapsulated brine shrimp eggs.

FWIW,

Matt

Maybe the culture over here is different as its the oppisite as hardly any shops will sell bbs eggs unless they are already deshelled. And without getting in to a slagging match with you, be feeding the unhatched eggs you are actually feeding them a rich source of food as no energy has been spent in the hatching process. And as I have previously stated, it not ideal & between hatched and unhatched bbs, hatched all the way. But saying that I have raised many babies to adulthood with a combination of non-enriched bbs (hatched.unhatched) until they are taking frozen food.

 

[sharla1234]

O.k,
I guess I'll experiment on how much to feed them & whether or not to feed frozen rotifers.
Dark_Stranger, great pics.! I thought 8 babies were alot. Did you leave them in the urchin? Every time I have, my other fish have eaten them!
They seem great today.
When can I consider myself "out of the woods" or past the critical stage?

 

[sharla1234]

Eating Rotifers & BBS. Thanks for all the expertise!!!
S:rollface:

 

[dark_stranger]

Glad you like the pics, in that batch there were about 35. I actually transfer them into a nano tank so that they dont become fish food. The easiest way to do this is to catch the dad before he releases them & then by removing him out of the water, he will eventually spit them all out in the net, of which then after acclimatsing them to the new tank water, put them in the nano & the dad back into the main tank. Feeding him as he hasnt eaten for weeks & the female is normally straight on hs case for more babies. Glad to hear they are eating bbs, next stag will be frozen bbs. Initally, whole frozen bbs will be to big & therefore get a cube of frozen food, and shave small bits off to feed them. Also, try feeding them frozen in the morning as they wouldnt have eaten during the night & therefore being hungry may take the frozen. I normally try frozen after a couple of weeks. With regards to being out of the woods, you will always get a runt or two & therefore expect deaths, its part of life, even when eating frozen as there will be dominant fish. Not to sure if you noticed, but im sure you did, the urchin is fake

Good luck.

 

[sharla1234]

Wow, had no idea the urchin was fake, thought the colors were trippy!.
Catching the daddy is not an option for me. I have a 6 ft. reef w/lots of rock. Have tried this w/lights out, lts on, at feeding time, etc... sometimes w/hubby helping for a couple hrs.!!

At what age should I try feeding frozen BBS?
I also wonder when I should take them out of the breeder, or if I should? when will they not be fishfood in my reef.

 

[dark_stranger]

lol, Have you tried turning the ligths off then after a while turning them on so it stuns the fish and just stays put for a min or so? thats what I do. But i must admit the 1st few times I spent hrs waiting by the tank waiting for him to release the fish. Then I decided to catch them before he released them & then spent hrs chasing him around the tank I would try feeding frozen after a couple of weeks and then try in the morning so that they are hungry. At first shave bits off the frozen cube & then eventually just place a small amount of thawed bbs in the tank & then will soon grow as they dont seem to understand the concept of eating slowly & will eat so much their bellies streatch so much that they go transparent & also eat so much it hangs out of their mouths. I would be inclined not to put them in your main tank as you will never get them out again, unless you want them in there, but then they may fight & kill each other, thats if they dont become fish food. Do you have a sump that they can develop in?

 

[sharla1234]

Well, it has been a week today. The babies have been doing great, but last night two were swimming nose down. This morning they were gone!! Did the others eat them?
Today most of them are doing the same; nose down! Have I overfed, underfed, fed the wrong food????? Water temp?
?????

 

[dark_stranger]

I am unsure whether the remaining babies would have eaten the dead one, but I have also experianced dead ones vanishing very quickly. I can only persume that the warm salt water conditions enduces rapid decaying? I would also like to point out that I still have babies dying now days & its more likely a natural process than anything your doing, although thats pure speculation & therefore simply build on your experiances from this batch & look forward to the next one, which will be bigger

 

[sharla1234]

Thanks for all the help. The six babies I had left, despite my OCD husbandry, were all gone this morning!
Sad day. Just wonder if there was anything else I could've done differently.
Even with that said, it was a great last 8 days! They were so cute.

 

[dark_stranger]

lol, typically i get home to the misses standing at the door telling me that im going to be a dad again {shock horror). Fortunately she meant the cardinals. This will be the first batch for about 8wks. Anyway, back to your problems. Try and feed the dad as much as possible as the female fish will be back on his case very soon & hopefully you can progress a little further. Good luck.