Back into the Reefing Game (25 gallons at a time)

[ZKicka4000]

So I've been hovering about RC for some time now and have absorbed so much useful information, I would like to thank everyone for that. I realized that I've been somewhat of a parasite in that manner, gathering all this knowledge without giving anything back. This is a great resource that only works if its members contribute, and for that reason I finally decided to begin a thread about my current tank.

I'll start with a quick background of my exposure to the hobby. Although I grew up with aquariums in the house, it wasn't until I worked at a pet store in high school that I became intrigued by reef tanks. I then started my first reef tank, which was a simple mixed 20 gallon. I quickly progressed to a 125 that contained mostly SPS and tridacnid clams. This tank had the works, a DIY calcium reactor, precision marine skimmer, 40 gallon sump, 20 gallon refugium with macro-algae, another 10 gallon refugium with mangroves, VHO lights etc., etc. This tank was simple, I hardly ever performed maintenance and it always looked great. In a way I wasn't learning much, everything ran so smoothly I didn't need to learn. I soon graduated college and entered the real world, and with regret I exited the hobby to free up me and resources.

Fast forward a few years and my interest was renewed. I wasn't sure how far I wanted to go so I decided to ease my way back in. I raided my parents' basement to see what old equipment I had left behind that may be useful. I'll hold back the details for now, but after a few weeks of building I ended up with this:




I apologize that I didn't construct a build thread at that time as I myself find them inspirational. So here are the specs: 25 gallon high, DIY LED light (consists of CREE LEDs, 13 RB, 6 CW, 4 NW and 2 moonlights), DIY Arduino controller (dims to simulate sunrise/sunset and simulates moon phases), VorTech MP10, Ranco temperature controller, and a CPR BakPak skimmer. This isn't my ideal set-up as I prefer sumps and bad a$$ skimmers, but I have reasons for this specific set up that I'll describe in another post.

At any rate, I've learned more in the last few months than in my previous(and thus far, more successful) endeavor. I firmly believe that this is due to the set-up limitations of a smaller tank. To those with thriving nano tanks, I salute you. That's all for now, once I figure out the best way to document the life of this tank retrospectively I will continue. Feel free to ask me questions, that's what we are all here for. Also feel free to provide insight/criticism as I continually strive to improve my proficiency in this hobby.

 

[rekab]

Looks good! Welcome back to the addiction

 

[ZKicka4000]

So I figured I'd post a picture that illustrates 3 problems that I've struggled with since I set up this tank. The picture isn't the greatest as its taken with an iPhone, but hopefully you can see what I'm talking about. I need to order some gel filters, and maybe eventually a good camera.



Problems:
1) Some form of algae. It's more of a brown fuzz with maybe a bit of cyano. It doesn't seem to get much longer that what you see.
2) Lack of growth. This frag has been in this tank for nearly a year.
3) Washed out colors. The color is actually better than what it looks like in this picture, but still not great.

So the parameters:
S.G. = 1.026 (Refractometer calibrated to 1.026)
Temp = 79 (Controlled by Ranco)
Alkalinity = Stable around 8 dKH (Salifert)
Calcium = Stable around 450 (Hanna)
Magnesium = Stable around 1300 (Salifert)
Phosphate = 0 (Salifert)
Nitrate = 0 (API)
PH = 8.2 during day, 8.0 at night (electronic meter calibrated with 7.0 and 10.0 solution)

Dosing 15ml/day of Ca & Alk, 2.5ml/day of Mg from BRS.
3 gallon water change every 10 days using 0 TDS RO/DI and IO Reef Crystals.

Light:
13 CREE XT-E Royal Blues - 8hrs/day @ 95%
6 CREE XT-E Cool White - 6hrs/day @ 85%
4 CREE XT-E Neutral White - 6hrs/day @ 85%

I have not tested with a PAR meter, but have been considering renting one.

Water Movement:
MP10 set at Reef Crest Mode, 90% (one blue LED to go)

This tank has been set up for about 2 years now, but the first year was without any coral. There is approximately 25 lbs of rack in the tank, most of which was dead live rock from my previous reef. I added about a lb or so of live rock to introduce bacteria, coralline, etc. Nearly all of the exposed surface of this rock is now covered with coralline now.

There are only 2 fish in the tank, a clown and a damsel. I feed New Life Spectrum once a day. There are a TON of snails in my tank. I ordered my CUC from a popular online retailer and there were WAY more in the order than were supposed to be.

After reading quite a few threads about 0 Nitrates/Phosphates being less than ideal for SPS corals, I'm starting to think that this is my problem. My second guess is that maybe I need to dial the light intensity down a bit.

So Reef Central, what are your thoughts?

 

[ReefWreak]

On your colors, I agree with both of your suggestions. I'm running 23 or so Cree LEDs, and mine are dialed down to about 25% and 50% (white and color are 50% @ 700mah and royal blues are at 50% @ 1300mah).

I also felt like I wasn't getting the colors I wanted out of my corals, and I have now been running with my skimmer turned off for about 2 or so months now, and have been dosing amino acids on and off for that time. My color has improved on most of my corals. Other maintenance is the same, and calcium and alkalinity uptake are about the same. I have to clean my front glass more, but no nuisance algae. I also run macro algae in my display too, so that helps.

 

[ZKicka4000]

I'm running 23 or so Cree LEDs, and mine are dialed down to about 25% and 50% (white and color are 50% @ 700mah and royal blues are at 50% @ 1300mah).

So I didn't think of this until you posted this, but I'm running my LED's a lot lower than I originally represented.

I didn't mention this before, but I'm running all of these CREE XT-E LEDs off of 1000mA drivers, while the max current of the LEDs are 1500mA. So even if my controller were set to run these at 100%, I would only be driving them at 66%.

If my math is correct, the following would be the calculation of my current LED output.

Royal Blue = 1000 [driver current] / 1500 [max current] * 0.95 [controller set @ 95%] = 63%
Whites = 1000 [driver current] / 1500 [max current] * 0.85 [controller sett @ 85%] = 57%

Is this correct?

 

[ZKicka4000]

So I have devised a plan to attempt to rectify the issues I spoke of above. In order to hopefully pinpoint which is the most successful, I am going to allow sufficient time beteween implementations to observe it's effect. Well, here we go:

Stage 1. I am going to dial my lighting intensity back a bit. I'll do this over the course of a few weeks to see if my algae situation and coral coloration improves.
Stage 2. After this succeeds/fails, I intend to begin dosing Acropower. I will also begin feeding a bit more to try and raise my phosphates/nitrates.
Stage 3. If I am unable to raise my phosphates/nitrates, I'll probably add another fish. The problem with this is that there aren't too many small reef-safe fish that I really like.

And now that I've determined that I have excess capacity in my light fixture, I'm debating on replacing some of my white LEDs with other spectrums. Specifically, I'm looking at a few 430nm violets. I'll have to replace one of my drivers with a 700mA driver and dissassemble my fixture, so I really only want to do this if I'll notice a significant improvement in coloration. I've read good things about these, but would like to hear some "success" stories.

Any insight/comments would be greatly appreciated, especially if you added different spectrum LEDs as a later upgrade.

 

[ReefWreak]

Sorry I missed your prior post. Your logic is good. I usually just give the % and max amperage for each of my strings since my white/color string maxes at 700mah on some of them, but becuase it's mixed I brought the whole string down to 700mah. Either way, I run them at half of that because I don't need any more I don't think, as it is now I've already cooked a coral at these settings.

Stage 1 sounds good, stage 2 sounds good as well. You'll definitely get some algae on your glass the day after dosing acropower, but that is a sign that it's adding the nutrients you're looking for. Stage 3 is good too, and I agree that it's not ideal, but it'll also add some color to your tank and be something else fun to focus on.

Get a cool fish, or a pair of small fishes, that way it add some extra interest. You could even do a trio/harem of flasher wrasses or a pair of helfrichi firefishes or something. Be sure to at minimum use Tank Transfer Method (TTM) for treating the new fishes for ich before adding them.

I always go back and forth on adding to or playing with the spectrum of my lights at the LED level. In theory, all you need are whites and blues. I went for the full spectrum because I feel like, although I understand how spectrum works, maybe it's the availability of different outputs, or maybe it's the way the corals "see" the individual streams of light, but I think there is added value in breaking out the LEDs/colors into individual LEDs.

I've been wondering about switching my Cree XT green LED over to the bridgelux lime that I have, and possibly adding additional "UV" LEDs, as well as dialing down the white/color string a bit. I'm not really sure, I just insisted on the DIY LEDs so that I could swap them out and mix and match color, and haven't done enough of it (since it's a pain to disassemble the hood).

I'm going to do some more research on adding more UV/Violet to the tank, and if I come up with anything, I'll keep you posted and/or post it in my thread. If you are technical + LED minded, you should check out the last link I posted in my thread to a good article on "success setting up LEDS on a grow-out system". It's product placement for Ecotech, but I think it was a decent white paper on success with LEDs.

 

[ZKicka4000]

I really appreciate the input, thank you!

I will be doing some research on additional spectrum LEDs as well, likely changing out my 2 moonlights from RB to 430nm violets. I figure this way, I can leave my white and blue channels as is to allow more flexibility in my settings. And worst case scenario, I have 430nm moonlights if I decide to not use them during the day. As you did, I decided to do a DIY fixture and controller to allow easy substitutions later. Glad I did now.

I borrowed a better camera and wanted to post a "before" picture, with the hope that in a few months I will be posting an improved "after" picture. Still not the best picture as the colors are better than what you see, but hopefully enough to track progress. I guess I'd never make it as a photographer. There are actually 4 corals in the picture, a bali slimer, sunset montipora, purple stylophora and another acro.



I will be adding quite a few corals soon, as the LEAR Frag Fest is 2/20/16. I've been holding out because I haven't been impressed with anything at my LFSs. I added these corals last year to "test" the system, and just haven't seen anything I deemed worthy of adding. It's been torture to wait, but in such as small tank I want to be selective.

Thanks again, ReefWreck!

 

[ReefWreak]

Definitely be selective with new corals, and space them waaaaay farther apart than you think they should be or need to be. Take a look at my thread, page one, then the second to last page. Everything grew in and grew on top of each other.

Honestly the biggest offender is my A. Formosa, which I believe is the same species as your green slimer, just a different specific coral. They grow like crazy and all over other corals, and much faster than all other sps.

 

[stevem650]

Quote"Dosing 15ml/day of Ca & Alk, 2.5ml/day of Mg from BRS.
3 gallon water change every 10 days using 0 TDS RO/DI and IO Reef Crystals"

I might be wrong, it seems like a lot of Alk & Ca for 25 gal & 3 corals. I would check your test kits.

 

[ZKicka4000]

Quote"Dosing 15ml/day of Ca & Alk, 2.5ml/day of Mg from BRS.
3 gallon water change every 10 days using 0 TDS RO/DI and IO Reef Crystals"

I might be wrong, it seems like a lot of Alk & Ca for 25 gal & 3 corals. I would check your test kits.

I thought so too, but the coralline and hundred or so dwarf cerith snails I have must contribute quite a bit. (Not by choice, I got reverse-screwed and they sent me WAY more than I ordered) I consistently come up with around 1 dKH loss per day, and as a test I decided to up my dosing to 20ml a day to see if my numbers change. Yup, they changed, within a few days I was up to 10 dKH. So it seems 15 ml a day keeps my tank around 8 dKH or so. Additionally, I see absolutely no signs of precipitation.

 

[ZKicka4000]

I bought and installed a 4 channel dosing pump to dose my Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium in order to promote parameter stability. This presented another challenge of a small sump-less tank, how and where to introduce the fluids. So I decided to make a manifold that would drip into the return chamber from my skimmer. So far, it seems to provide enough water movement to prevent precipitation. I have it set up to dose Alk and Ca 6 times a day and Mg 1 time a day.

I also bought a bottle of AcroPower, but won't begin dosing until I finish my light intensity experiment. I thought of dosing this with the 4th channel, but since it needs to be mixed maybe that's not such a great idea. Anyone else using a dosing pump to dose AcroPower? Looking for a use for the 4th channel, any other ideas?

 

[ReefWreak]

I've seen people dose acropower in an automatic doser, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Maybe just shake it weekly or something to make sure it isn't stratifying too much. Also keep in mind that you should view it as effectively a bottle of nitrates, and it will spike your nutrient levels and algae.

I'm actually dosing now directly into my display because I was worried about precipitation in my lower flow rear chamber. we'll see how it goes. Your dosing into the skimmer exhaust might precipitate either kalk if you're using kalk in your topoff. Otherwise I'm not sure that the alkalinity part of 2 part precipitates like kalk does, but dosing into a high-air environment will lessen pH impact as well as potentially cause some precipitation, but you'll see how it goes.

 

[ZKicka4000]

Well, I'm about two weeks out from the LEAR Frag Fest and have been thinking that I better set up a quarantine tank. I'm almost embarrassed to say, but I've never quarantined anything in my life. I've always just rolled the dice... yeah I know... stupid me. But it's worked so far!

So I'm asking for some quick advice. I plan on using a 5 or 10 gallon tank with a simple fluorescent strip light, a powerhead and a heater. I have plenty of old, dried out rock from a previous tank, and figured I'd throw in a piece to aid in buffering capacity. I will dip the corals prior to placing in quarantine, and will remove the plug/base prior to adding to my DT. So my questions are:

1) Is the rock necessary? Or will properly mixed seawater maintain a stable PH.
2) Would it be best to set up ASAP? Or could I just fill up a few days prior with 50% fresh saltwater and 50% saltwater from my DT?
3) How long should I quarantine?
4) Anything I'm missing?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ReefWreak]

Mixed and flowing saltwater should be fine. Ideally maybe a HOB filter or something for some biological filtration (or a small rock from your display tank, or some matrix or other biological media, even old GFO/carbon will have enough surface area for biological activity to take place on).

I would set it up ASAP just so you have it all thought out and working before you get your frags going.

I would dip the living heck out of your corals with Bayer Advanced insect killer, then after that I would quarantine for 15 days, ideally 30. If it's fishes, I'd do 30, corals only, probably shorter should be fine.

I would familiarize yourself with the most commonly found pests on corals, just so you can take a look when you're out shopping to see if you spot any (and avoid it) or so you can quickly recognize them when you get home.

I only know SPS pests, so things like Acro Eating Flatworms (AEFW) and red bugs are familiar to me, and for montipora they have Montipora Eating Nudibranchs (MENs), but that's about it. For what it's worth, one of the frags I bought last time at a frag swap developed some bubble algae on it, and it spread to a small spot in my tank from there, even though I removed it a few times from the frag plug.

If the frags aren't encrusted into the plug entirely, it is often recommended to just break off the plug and leave it outside the house in the sun for a while to kill anything on it and bleach it out. If it's encrusted then oh well.

Also, fully expect your nice new corals to look like crap for 30 days after you have them re-homed and settled into your new tank. It'll take a while to recover. That being said, my ORA Purple Plasma is still brown about 6 months later. Everything else has colored up nicely. Maybe it's just unhappy where it is, too little light, who knows. Everything else is nice and happy and colorful.

 

[mav3rick478]

Let me start by saying, love the build! How is algae growth in your HOB skimmer? Yours is positioned similar to my Reef Octopus 90 and my SuperLux LEDs, I've put some vinyl (I work at a print shop and we have a vinyl plotter) in the front side that touches the tank but it looks like the light bouncing off the back wall is causing growth especially in the cone area and in the main chamber below the bubble line. The cone area is easily cleaned but the chamber is difficult to reach. So I want to see if others have growth in their chamber's and just leave it or if not then I will cover my skimmer with more vinyl.

 

[ZKicka4000]

Thanks! I appreciate the feedback.

I do get algae growth in the skimmer, so every 4-6 weeks I take the skimmer off and clean it. It's mildly annoying, but its probably for the better anyway because a good amount of sediment builds up in the bottom and the pump needs cleaning as well.

I had thought about covering it with window tint or something similar, just never got around to it. Once I stumble across a satisfactory material to do so, I probably will.

 

[mav3rick478]

Oh window tint, I didn't even think about that. I actually have some in the garage from a time we were going to tint some windows in the house. Hmm I might try that and see what happens. But you are correct, in cleaning the whole unit every so often. I have noticed sediment building up in the bottom of the main chamber.

 

[ZKicka4000]

I like your idea about the vinyl better. Whatever I apply, I want it to be easily removable in case I don't like it or it doesn't work out. This indecision on my part is exactly why I haven't done anything yet.

 

[mav3rick478]

Yeah tint is a pain to remove, did it once and vowed to never do it again but being able to some what see in the main chamber is something I would like to be able to do. I don't mind not seeing the cone to the collector cup because I just need to make sure the bubbles start at the water line which is marked on the main chamber via a decal. Ugh decisions.