back to bioballs

[ctripi]

I’ve also been interested in the cryptic sump concept since it was brought to light years ago.
But struggled with the notion of how w one might manage detritus accumulation without disturbing the system
Which brings me back to my goal of evaluating the value of an easily maintained substrate for biological filtration

 

[reeferdude710]

i like chemipure the best

 

[EnderG60]

There are two reasons they are called nitrate factories.

First they tend to collect waste(uneaten food and such) as it gets trapped in the prongs and cant be flushed off. So it just sits there and rots. This can easily be fixed with a filter sock before the bio balls and or just giving them a rinse in tank water to clear the debris off them a few times a year.

Second they are exceptionally good at ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. But nitrate to nitrogen, well they arnt so good. But technically thats the same for live rock.

That said anything with a bunch of surface area will do the same thing. Live rock, Matrix, hell a cinder block will do it, and most of them are better at it than bio balls.

If you want SPS, go with live rock. Bio balls are not what you want. Fish only, yeah why not.

 

[blasterman789]

Bioballs, biowheels and other media are a solution in search of a problem. Always have been. Essentially an invention of the aquarium supplies industry.

The denitrifying bacteria that occupy your tank will assume a population based on nutrient supply (ammonia / nitrite) and not surface area. Just look at the bare tanks of feeder fish in pet stores stocked to brim with goldfish or guppies. Bacteria aren't having a hard time consuming all the ammonia produced by those fish in a bare glass tank.

I'll give you one strong negative against mechanical or artificial biological filtration. Lets say the power goes out and your external gadget housing all these colonies of bacteria gets decoupled from your main tank. Now your screwed because ammonia levels will rapidly escalate because you've encouraged bacteria to grow on media external from the main biology producing ammonia. It would be like having a colostomy with a healthy colon just because you like having a bag hanging off your abdomen. I prefer to keep the biology in the tank. The Berlin method works - live it / love it.

I'm all for mechanical deitrus filtration. I just prefer to do it with a device that can be easily cleaned on a frequent basis to keep bacteria from establishing; HOB filter, etc.

 

[ctripi]

You make a good point. There is that risk of having most of my denitrifing load remote to the display. But I hope to have a mature sps display with some open space above it. All in a 50-60g cube. Thankful power outages are very rare where I live.
The recent thread on GAC and dissolved organics had Matt Waddell mentioning the at least one of the displays at the cal Academy of Sciences is supported by remote bioballs.
There seems to be some nice sps displays started with dry rock alone. So one may conclude that, excluding a comparison of surface area, it doesn’t matter what the composition of the biological filter substrate is.



There will be rock in the display but minimally so. So in order to have a decent bioload I’ve got to plan for remote.

 

[alton]

I have used bio bale first and then moved to bio balls starting in 1991. I have never had a tank crash, and my best test tank for this test was a 200 gallon oceanic that ran from 1999 to 2009. Before I swapped everything to a 300DD the Nitrates were at 2ppm and this tank was well stocked with fish and coral. I never touched or washed the bio balls. I like the trickle filtration system for the added oxygen I feel it gives my aquariums stability, as compared to other types of sumps like on my wife's tank with filter socks. I change out the blue filter pad regularly, which to me is easier than washing filter socks. I guess it is part of getting old and not wanting to change, but if the sytem works don't break it. And yes I still use my Urchin Skimmer Pro that is 14 years young on my 180. If you do several searches here on RC on individuals who complained about high nitrates and every word of advise that came in told them to change out there nitrate factories of bio balls to something else, but in most cases it did not fix the issue, because maintenance is key. Find a system that works for you, and don't change it every time something new comes out

 

[reefgeezer]

...Before I swapped everything to a 300DD the Nitrates were at 2ppm and this tank... And yes I still use my Urchin Skimmer Pro that is 14 years young on my 180.

May I ask if you are saying you maintained 2 ppm of nitrate using only bioballs in a trickle filter and the Urchin Skimmer?

 

[alton]

60 gallon water changes a month, it was the second easiest tank I ever owned to take care of. The first was a 158 loaded with Xenia, that one I only ran the skimmer one week out of a month.

 

[alton]

If you look at most tanks today that are low nutrient, low phosphate, low nitrate, they are running bio pellets, and or dose carbon. Some do not use water changes but have large calcium reactors and giant skimmers. There all kind of ways to keep everything running smoothly. In looking back it took a year to two years for Nitrates to drop. My first year on my 300 I couldn't get Nitrates below 20, then after that they just dropped.
The first picture is around 2007 of the 200 with GSP some Xenia, and a bunch of Frogspawn, the second is the 158 I had in my office. I wish I would of taken pictures of the trickle filter of the 200 before I sold it. It was loaded with all kinds of life that did not require light.

 

[ctripi]

Alton. That’s great to here! Routine and routine maintenance are definitely key.
I mean certain reef keeping concepts are definitely out for good (plenum, UG filters, ozone, uv) but some, maybe bioballs, seem to linger. Back in the day it was also a factor of what we were keeping too.

 

[ctripi]

Carbon dosing in form of bio pellets or liquid dosing is just another way of artificially reducing nutrients from an excessive bioload. Excessive bioload may not be the safest long term approach.

 

[karimwassef]

Who says ozone and uv are out? I'm an advocate of both under the right conditions.

 

[karimwassef]

Excessive bioload is subjective. I have the fastest growth when I feed the most. Reducing organics is terrible for me. I love free floating organics. I just need to control excess inorganics. A scrubber does all that. I actually don't need a bacterial medium. Whatever naturally grows on my rocks and sand and algae is enough for me and I can feed heavily without issue.

 

[jubei2006]

Problem with bioballs, they are ugly compared to live rock. Why not try to have a small biotope in the sump doing the same thing as bioballs? Best use for those bioballs.....packing peanuts!

 

[alton]

Problem with bioballs, they are ugly compared to live rock. Why not try to have a small biotope in the sump doing the same thing as bioballs? Best use for those bioballs.....packing peanuts!

Who sees it, its under your tank behind a cabinet door(180) Unless you build your cabinet like my old 300DD where I had the trickle filter in back and the fuge / frag compartment in front? FYI I pulled the pellet reactor after my Frogspawn started looking bad, in a month they started thriving again.

 

[alton]

Here is a picture of my 180 yesterday and you can see I love all corals. The SPS in this tank hold their own in this tank as in my 300 before. Sorry you have to look at a dirty tank, the wife added a pool in the back yard this summer and now it takes up precious aquarium cleaning time, even in the fall. My advice to anyone is find something that works for you and don't change it. It doesn't mean you can't tweak it, just don't jump every time something new and wonderful comes out. I saw where BRS pulled there roller mat, which was the greatest new thing a few months ago. Of course one reason why I like watching the BRS videos because they try / test everything. Wonder where I got the idea of two purple tangs in the same tank from?

 

[karimwassef]

That is a lot of GSP. Definitely a nitrate lover

 

[alton]

That is a lot of GSP. Definitely a nitrate lover

I have an LFS that loves me

 

[reefgeezer]

Here is a picture of my 180 yesterday and you can see I love all corals. The SPS in this tank hold their own in this tank as in my 300 before...

Nice tank. For discussion purposes: Do you think the rock/sand and GSP (and other nitrate sequestering life) in the DT are more or less responsible for maintaining low nitrates than the ~30% monthly water changes and bioballs in your trickle filter? What would you guess would happen if you took the bioballs out of the trickle filter now that the tank is mature?

 

[alton]

Go back and read post #26, I do not use bio balls to remove nitrates. Stability and Oxygen, I tried a tank with out bio balls and have had issues.