Bad batch of Instant Ocean? Alkalinity through the ROOF!!!
- Thread starter Megalodon
- Start date
spham
New member
SciGuy2 said:
1) yes
2) it started at 16dKH. I used up 1/5 the first time. When I was getting ready for my next wc, I use another 1/5. Tested the new mix and the KH was off the chart. I don't think time have anything to do with the bad batch. This bucket was bad from the start. 16dKH is very high already.
From other thread about IO salt that I've read, most people have very different KH on their new salt mix. Might be because everyone test their water differentlly. Even if they test their water differentlly, the KH should still be somewhere around the same (+/- a few dKH). From what I have read, everyone IO mix is off more than 5dKH.
Contacted Aquarium System a few days later and told them about my problem, they gladly replace my bad bucket of IO. Two weeks later I decided to do another water change with the IO with 16dKH. Tested the new mix just to be sure, and the KH was off scale (guess most of the KH seattle to the bottom of that bucket).
When you say that most of the KH settled to the bottom, exactly which element in the salt mix do you suppose this would be?
Steve
When you say that most of the KH settled to the bottom, exactly which element in the salt mix do you suppose this would be?
Steve
Scooterman67
New member
I purchased a 200g bucket of IO last week, DKH was 14, CA testes 350, on all three 25g water changes. I had High, High ALK with Bio Sea MARINEMIX, I testes 5 25g Individual Bags, I'm using New Saliflert test kits, I also retested Ca with LaMotte. My point is not only IO has consistency problems.
va_reefman
New member
Could it be the air/moisture/or other contaminants effecting the remaining salt in your bucket(s). I am just thinking out loud here. I am also an IO user and have not notice anything different in 8 years. FWIW, I always mix my salt at least 24 hrs before WC but never tested the new water. May be I should.
John
John
spham
New member
va_reefman said:
Could be, but I highly doubt it. After each use I make sure the lid is close tightly on the bucket. I did leave the bucket in my garage though.
From what I experiance testing my newly mix sw, I get the same reading after 5min, 24hrs, and 48hrs after mixing. At first I didn't belive my result so I took a sample to two lfs and they both confirm it.
samw
Member
Are people who are getting 16dKH using Salifert test kits? Are you using 4 or 5ml of water in the tests? The reason I ask is because it might be quite easy to use 5ml instead of 4ml by accident since the syringe is a 5ml syringe. If accidentally using 5ml, the 20% error would cause the results to be off by 20% so 16dkH would really be 12.8dKH. Just curious because the results are only off by 20% and this could be an explanation. I'm sure you guys are all testing correctly so please don't get offended by my question. Thanks. I usually get about 12dKH.
Scooterman67
New member
I check that every time I test. Only because I have so many kits, I have to make sure.
VaderWS6
New member
Holy ****! If an Instant Ocean water change destroyed my reef I would go NUTS!:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :uzi: :fun2: I have a bucket and 2 bags of IO on the way from petsmart.com, and if it damages my reef tanks there will be hell to pay. Also, I was pouring some IO into a cup last weekend, and noticed 2 small chunks about the size of a pea of what looked to be metal. I held a magnet to them and they were indeed metal. Looked like iron.
stereomandan
Premium Member
I didn't read this whole thread, but some of the things that I read made me think of an experience I had with IO a while back. I'm wondering if this is a clue to the problem. Maybe not.
I thought I would try placing a powerhead in a plastic trash can and mixing the salt overnight with the powerhead going since I read that you should mix the salt at least 24 hours prior to adding it. Previous to this, I had always matched my RO/DI water to the tank temp, and mixed the salt until the cloudiness was gone and added it right away. But this one time, I wanted to let it mix overnight. So what did I find the next day? I found a bunch of precipitate on the walls of the trash can and on the pump and the water was still cloudy. I decided not to use that mix for my tank.
I used the exact same bag of IO and mixed it the way I had always done it, and it mixed up just fine. I did my water change like normal. To this day, I add the newly mixed salt water to the tank. I have NEVER seen any adverse reaction from this. I do make sure that the salt mix matches the tank temp first though.
Could the method of mixing cause a problem? I think the water was colder than normal when I tried to mix it with the trash can and powerhead. This could be part of the problem, and make it take longer to mix, but overnight the water should have gotten up to 72 degrees or so.
Dan
I thought I would try placing a powerhead in a plastic trash can and mixing the salt overnight with the powerhead going since I read that you should mix the salt at least 24 hours prior to adding it. Previous to this, I had always matched my RO/DI water to the tank temp, and mixed the salt until the cloudiness was gone and added it right away. But this one time, I wanted to let it mix overnight. So what did I find the next day? I found a bunch of precipitate on the walls of the trash can and on the pump and the water was still cloudy. I decided not to use that mix for my tank.
I used the exact same bag of IO and mixed it the way I had always done it, and it mixed up just fine. I did my water change like normal. To this day, I add the newly mixed salt water to the tank. I have NEVER seen any adverse reaction from this. I do make sure that the salt mix matches the tank temp first though.
Could the method of mixing cause a problem? I think the water was colder than normal when I tried to mix it with the trash can and powerhead. This could be part of the problem, and make it take longer to mix, but overnight the water should have gotten up to 72 degrees or so.
Dan
OK. I guess I'm just one more data point in this list of anecdotes re: bad IO mix.
Let me start by saying I've been using IO with good results for some time now. I'm also one of those anal retentive types who runs pH, Mg+, Ca++, and Alk. (all fresh Salifert kits) on all replacement ASW that goes in the tank. Naturally, I also check temp. and Sp.G.
So.... when my last bucket of IO ran out, I went down to the LFS to get another. They didn't have any more of the 200 gal buckets, so I got a 3 bag box. When I got home with this stuff, I noticed that the bags had "New Improved.... more dissolvable", or words to that effect, on them. I went ahead and whipped a batch using the new mix in preparation for a scheduled water change. Didn't notice anthing unusual in the mixing process like cloudyness or precipitation, but I did notice that it took significantly more CaCl to get the Ca++ up to where I like it.
The next day, things got more than a bit hectic at home. So instead of my usual battery of tests, I just checked temp. & Sp.G., and proceeded with my water change. Within 30 minutes of completing the water change, it was clear things were not as they should be in my tank. All my animals were showing varying levels of distress. At that point, I did run a full set of tests on my leftover ASW. Sure enough, the Alk was > 18 dKH. I thought maybe, as unlikely as it seems, the addition of CaCl might have messed things up, and therefore, made up a fresh 5 gal. batch of "undoctored" ASW with the new IO. The Alk in that was off scale high.
By this time, a number of corals were looking pretty sad. So I beat feet back to the LFS, grabbed a bag of Kent salt mix, mixed up enough ASW with that for a BIG water change, and tested everything carefully (all OK). As soon as I did a near 50% water change (using the Kent ASW) the next day, my critters began to perk up. Another large water change (again with the Kent mix) was done a few days later, and everything returned to normal.
Now I know none of this proves anything, but I do know the tank had been thriving prior to the 10% water change done with the "New, Improved..." IO, that it took a decided turn for the worse after said water change, that the tank's condition returned to normal after 2 large water changes with a different mix, and that there were no other changes in the tank that might reasonably explain these events. Based on this completely unscientific input, I will 1) Not use IO until AS acknowledges and fixes the problem, 2) Become even more paranoid (if possible) about anything that goes into my tank.
Thanks for letting me vent,
Bert
Let me start by saying I've been using IO with good results for some time now. I'm also one of those anal retentive types who runs pH, Mg+, Ca++, and Alk. (all fresh Salifert kits) on all replacement ASW that goes in the tank. Naturally, I also check temp. and Sp.G.
So.... when my last bucket of IO ran out, I went down to the LFS to get another. They didn't have any more of the 200 gal buckets, so I got a 3 bag box. When I got home with this stuff, I noticed that the bags had "New Improved.... more dissolvable", or words to that effect, on them. I went ahead and whipped a batch using the new mix in preparation for a scheduled water change. Didn't notice anthing unusual in the mixing process like cloudyness or precipitation, but I did notice that it took significantly more CaCl to get the Ca++ up to where I like it.
The next day, things got more than a bit hectic at home. So instead of my usual battery of tests, I just checked temp. & Sp.G., and proceeded with my water change. Within 30 minutes of completing the water change, it was clear things were not as they should be in my tank. All my animals were showing varying levels of distress. At that point, I did run a full set of tests on my leftover ASW. Sure enough, the Alk was > 18 dKH. I thought maybe, as unlikely as it seems, the addition of CaCl might have messed things up, and therefore, made up a fresh 5 gal. batch of "undoctored" ASW with the new IO. The Alk in that was off scale high.
By this time, a number of corals were looking pretty sad. So I beat feet back to the LFS, grabbed a bag of Kent salt mix, mixed up enough ASW with that for a BIG water change, and tested everything carefully (all OK). As soon as I did a near 50% water change (using the Kent ASW) the next day, my critters began to perk up. Another large water change (again with the Kent mix) was done a few days later, and everything returned to normal.
Now I know none of this proves anything, but I do know the tank had been thriving prior to the 10% water change done with the "New, Improved..." IO, that it took a decided turn for the worse after said water change, that the tank's condition returned to normal after 2 large water changes with a different mix, and that there were no other changes in the tank that might reasonably explain these events. Based on this completely unscientific input, I will 1) Not use IO until AS acknowledges and fixes the problem, 2) Become even more paranoid (if possible) about anything that goes into my tank.
Thanks for letting me vent,
Bert
ScubaRaven
Premium Member
Wow... I have been sitting here reading this entire thread all morning! Very interesting indeed! I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where I can utilize natural seawater but from time to time use synthetic. I think I'll stay away from IO in the near future until I hear something official. Hope everyone experiencing problems overcomes them.
On another note, I would like to say that more than likely, some hobbiests reading this thread are likely to look at their particular saltmix as a cause to a problem(s) they may be experiencing. I would recommend looking elsewere first. Most problems experienced are most definately caused by some other aspect that we, the hobbiests have or are overlooking.
Rich Valentine
ScubaRaven
On another note, I would like to say that more than likely, some hobbiests reading this thread are likely to look at their particular saltmix as a cause to a problem(s) they may be experiencing. I would recommend looking elsewere first. Most problems experienced are most definately caused by some other aspect that we, the hobbiests have or are overlooking.
Rich Valentine
ScubaRaven
thalasinos
In Memoriam
Hello, I am yet another one with a bad batch of IO salt; I also get a reading of 6.5 Mg/L or 18 DKH.
About two weeks ago I picked up a bucket of IO salt from my lfs and did my first water change with it, about a day or two later I decided to test my water and found that my ALK was very high and my ca was low, I came online looking for answers and everyone pointed me in the water change direction, SO I decided to wip up another batch of water, I again did a water change and tested after that again, After testing I saw that my parameters where actually getting WORSE what could be the problem? Again I came online asking questions and I got about 100 different answers and reasons. 70% of people told me to do another water change. This Time I made another batch of water but tested it before dumping it in to my tank, and VOILA there it was ALK 6.5MG/L and CA 360.
Where do I go from here, Will IO reimburse me for the salt or do I have to talk to my LFS about that.
About two weeks ago I picked up a bucket of IO salt from my lfs and did my first water change with it, about a day or two later I decided to test my water and found that my ALK was very high and my ca was low, I came online looking for answers and everyone pointed me in the water change direction, SO I decided to wip up another batch of water, I again did a water change and tested after that again, After testing I saw that my parameters where actually getting WORSE what could be the problem? Again I came online asking questions and I got about 100 different answers and reasons. 70% of people told me to do another water change. This Time I made another batch of water but tested it before dumping it in to my tank, and VOILA there it was ALK 6.5MG/L and CA 360.
Where do I go from here, Will IO reimburse me for the salt or do I have to talk to my LFS about that.
RichConley
New member
.
