bad times at bio-reef

[dez_2121]

What’s up every one just wanted to inform every one about my LAST!!! Experience with bio reef

well as some of you might know I’m stocking my 55 gal tank its well yesterday ( 26 sept 06) I went to bio reef and purchase 2 fire fish goby’s and some fish food well got home was doing the normal acclamation on them and during that time both of my new fire fish dyed. I did the normal test on my system to make sure that all my settings were good ( and they were ) so I thought to myself its no problem a place like bio-reef would have no problem with a refund or at lest store credit ( was going to buy more anyway ) well I just got off the phone with the guy that works there he told me that all I had to do was bring in a water sample for him to test I said that I could do that but since I’m in saint Mary’s GA I wouldn’t be able to drive back down until sat he told me that if I couldn’t come in today then there’s nothing he can do.

I mean whats the deal with that , even most place’s have some kind of guarantee with there live stock that’s more then a couple of hours I would think that a place like bio-reef would. If I were to take him in a sample of my water today or Saturday and it ended up being my water I would have no problem with paying for some new fish, I’m not trying to get over on anyone I just want to stock my system. All I’m saying is watch out on who you trust to get your live stock from and make sure that there’s more than a couple of hour guarantee on it

Oh and my system has been up for over six months and I’ve been doing fish only for years just this is the first time I’m doing a reef and the last time dealing with bio-reef

my question to the other store owners on here i mean am i wrong for thinking that i should at lest be able to get store credit or am i right for never shoping there again. there's to many other places in jax and on the net to get my live stock from to worry about going back there

Dez

oh and to atlantis my new GSP frogspawn and xenia are doing great thanxs WILL BE SEENING YOU ON SAT.......

 

[dez_2121]

oh that that was supposed to be a thumbs down:thumbdown

 

[Bennihanna]

I don't know man. I think it is great that your intentions are good, but guess what not everyone's are. There are a whole lot of customers that would rip a local store off even if it was there own fault they lost a fish. Stores operate on a shoestring budget and the fact that they offered any kind of refund is good. I will say this, blasting them on the internet is probably not the best way to get what you want.

 

[neverwouldof]

Only thing i can say about bio-reef is they have Great product and lots of Great looking fish and corals..... Their tanks are kept immaculate! however, they do need some serious customer service personality training. I've been in sales all my life and i bet they could come close to doubling their business if they would just think of the customer as a positive and not as a burden on them. I believe it is the worst salesmanship i've ever come across next to the angry girl at a Mcdonalds drive thru! I try and stay with atlantis and fish maniac for good service and great knowledge.

I do think it's strange that your fish died the same day though... were they left in car for a long time or in the sun cooking? If they looked ok when you bought them... it's really tough to kill them the same day.

 

[Bennihanna]

Drop the bag in the driveway?

 

[dez_2121]

I’m not trying to get over on anyone I just want to stock my system. All I’m saying is watch out on who you trust to get your live stock from and make sure that there’s more than a couple of hour guarantee on it

my question to the other store owners on here i mean am i wrong for thinking that i should at lest be able to get store credit or am i right for never shoping there again.


sorry if it came out as a lfs bashing wasn't entended to be that way just was trying to get feed back on weather i was wrong on thinking that it shouldn't be to much to ask for at lest store credit


dez

 

[dez_2121]

Hahaha no they made it home ok wasn't left out in the sun or dropped in the drive way went straight from my car to floating in my sump/fug setup (which is in another room) for temp acclamation then into a 5 gal drip where they dyed

Hay maybe there is something wrong with the way I did it but this is the way I’ve done it for years with no problem.

Let me know if I’m doing something wrong and I’ll change it but like I said it’s worked for years

Dez

 

[dacro]

Sorry to hear about the fish, but Bio-Reef is a GREAT store and has always treated us fairly... Good Luck on ALL future acquisitions!

 

[Cades]

I am sorry that you lost your 2 firefish. However, there are some things that I should point out. You SHOULD NOT drip acclimate fish that have just undertaken a long journey. As fish are being transported the will urinate in the bag. Additionally, as time goes on, the pH steadily drops. At a low pH ammonia (from urination) is less toxic. Thus, when you drip acclimate a fish that has been bagged, you are actually spiking the toxicity of the water they are in. High pH water from your tank mixes with the ammonia in the bag creating a gas chamber effect on the poor fish. Usually, they will survive this, in your case they did not. Let us look at the situation. You bought two perfectly healthy fish that were eating in our store for over a week. BOTH of them died within a matter of minutes during your acclimation process. Imagine what the statistical probability is of both of their deaths occurring at the same time under your care having anything to do with our store or the quality of our fish. Further, we do not guarantee our fish AT ALL due to situations exactly like this. Normally, if we have a relationship with a customer (a regular that we have known for a while and we know is an experienced aquarist) then we give them the benefit of the doubt. Had you not said that you dip acclimate, had your water tested ok (which I assume it is), and finally had we refunded your money, then we would be losing money for something that was not in the least bit our fault!!! We are dedicated hobbyists, but we are also professionals trying to make a VERY DIFFICULT business work (we have to eat too you know and if you think we are breaking the bank doing this you are oh so wrong). So, it doesn’t help matters when someone like you comes on a forum like this and blasts us for something that was not our doing.

To Keith,
I sincerely apologize for our “lack of personality”. Keeping our tanks immaculate, our fish as healthy as possible, our store clean and stocked (we can’t just be salesmen) and then dealing with situations such as the one above daily can really wear on a person over the course of a day. It is something that we are aware of and are trying to improve. Again I apologize.

To all the kind people who show their support,
Thank you for your business and your responses.
Craig

 

[Ikaria]

What probably happened is that your fish suffocated. By the time you got them home, and floated, they had used up all the oxygen in the water. Water temp goes up, oxygen comes down.

I live an hour from Bio-Reef, and have bought fish from them many times without incident. I take a cooler with me to keep the water temp down, and if I have to stop on the way home, the fish go with me.

I'm sorry to hear about your fish, and hope things turn out alright. If I quit going to stores where I've had bad experiences, I'd have to take up knitting!

Also as a side note, you really shouldn't keep 2 firefish in the same tank as one will pick the other to death, but that's your call.

 

[Bennihanna]

I agree with what you are saying Craig. However I think people are going to start calling you by your old nickname if you keep it up. Remmber, "No Reef for You!"

Seriously, none of us should slander any stores publically. It is no good for anyone.

 

[PelagicMagic]

my BIGGEST problem with Bioreef is that they have sold me so many beautiful corals at low prices that I have no more room in my tank and now I need a bigger one




What a great store to live 5 min away from

 

[teach]

The only fish that I have ever lost from Bio Reef was one that jumped.
As for customer service, we go in weekly just for good conversation.

 

[PelagicMagic]

Jack the owner is also one of the nicest people I know

His son Craig is ok too,


just kidding Craig is great too

 

[Ikaria]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8232951#post8232951 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PelagicMagic
my BIGGEST problem with Bioreef is that they have sold me so many beautiful corals at low prices that I have no more room in my tank and now I need a bigger one




What a great store to live 5 min away from

Dibs on frags! j/k

I saw a 360 in the paper the other day!

 

[PelagicMagic]

Cades
Registered Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Occupation: Marine Biologist
Posts: 8

Craig, thats a long drive to and from work. How do you do it?

 

[dez_2121]

Ok a couple of things
To Cades
“You SHOULD NOT drip acclimate fish that have just undertaken a long journey. As fish are being transported the will urinate in the bag. Additionally, as time goes on, the pH steadily drops. At a low pH ammonia (from urination) is less toxic. Thus, when you drip acclimate a fish that has been bagged, you are actually spiking the toxicity of the water they are in. High pH water from your tank mixes with the ammonia in the bag creating a gas chamber effect on the poor fish. Usually, they will survive this, in your case they did not”

I didn’t know that and like I said if it is something wrong with my acclamation process then I’ll have to look into it and I will post my findings on it or if you could refer me to somewhere that has that info that would help also

“Further, we do not guarantee our fish AT ALL due to situations exactly like this”

For this reason and this reason alone is the reason why I decided to do business elsewhere because to me whether a fish is health is kind of rolling the dice. I mean you increase your odds by your experience and the relationship with the people you do business with but its still a gamble and I think I would rather deal with people that stand behind there product a little more. I mean 35 dollars isn’t that much I’ll just have to chalk it up as a loss but what if it was a 600 dollar angle.

“we are also professionals trying to make a VERY DIFFICULT business work (we have to eat too you know and if you think we are breaking the bank doing this you are oh so wrong). So, it doesn’t help matters when someone like you comes on a forum like this and blasts us for something that was not our doing”

I never doughted the fact that it is a very difficult business, but it is a business and as a customer of that business I have the right to voice my opinion on that business and as I said before I was not trying to blast you ( trust me ) And if you think I did I apologize. I was simply trying to voice an opinion. Not being nasty not being disrespectful but just voicing my opinion but from the way you replied sounds as if I’m not the only one that’s had some sort of problem. Just like you I’m a dedicated hobbyist, I’m just trying not to get taking advantage of by a business>……

And to every one else that has had good dealings with them in the past it’s really nice to hear that you have a place that you can trust and rely on. But as for me I think I’ll be taking my business elsewhere

Happy reefing


Dez

 

[Cades]

In regards to the acclimation process:

“I didn’t know that and like I said if it is something wrong with my acclamation process then I’ll have to look into it and I will post my findings on it or if you could refer me to somewhere that has that info that would help also”

Because you didn’t know that you blasted my store for something that wasn’t our fault in a public forum. Yes, you BLASTED my store. As far as a source goes you would need to consult a chemistry book; preferably a chemistry text that deals with the caveats of biochemistry in the ocean environment.

“you increase your odds by your experience and the relationship with the people you do business with but its still a gamble and I think I would rather deal with people that stand behind there product a little more. I mean 35 dollars isn’t that much I’ll just have to chalk it up as a loss but what if it was a 600 dollar angle.”

The whole point of what we do here is to provide exactly that. We work extremely hard to provide organisms of the utmost quality. I am a serious environmentalist and I meticulously research my suppliers to provide creatures that are caught in a conscientious manner without chemicals or explosives etc. We also buy aquacultured or aquaculture ourselves as many of the organisms we sell as we can. We DO stand behind our products as much as possible. As I explained, we cannot guarantee our fish for situations exactly like yours. Many people HAVE tried to take advantage of us when we have offered a guarantee. Example: A man buys a $90 tang from us a month ago, he comes in 2 weeks after he bought it mad because it ate poorly and died after two weeks (he never called us to tell us it was eating poorly by the way) he was steaming mad and wanted a complete refund without the hassle of going back home to get a water sample. Finally, I convinced him that I wouldn’t do anything unless I got a sample immediately and he drove home and got one. Well, his nitrates were ~300ppm+ (only other thing in his tank was a grouper). In your case a water sample wouldn’t have done any good, as that wasn’t the source of the problem. So, what would you have someone in my position do? Lets say it was from the $600 angle. I’m supposed to just refund your money on your word. There would be no LFS if we were to do that. I didn’t personally handle your case but I’ll tell you that I would have done exactly the same thing. Perhaps you didn’t intend to bash our store, but I don’t think you can blame me for my frustration,

“from the way you replied sounds as if I’m not the only one that’s had some sort of problem”

Granted, people with 300ppm nitrate have problems too.

OK, I’m going to end this on a positive note. How should someone acclimate their fish?

1. Float for 15 min.
2. Pour into net (it is considered bad practice to allow the ammonia rich water from the bag into the tank). However, if it is a large unwieldy fish you can drain the bag and carefully let the fish “slide out”.
3. If you have any aggressive fish it is usually a good idea to feed them first, turn out the lights, and rearrange your decorations. Obviously if you have a reef you will ignore the latter.

Once again, thanks for all the support guys (it’s nice to be accused of being a good conversationalist).
Ben, stop by the store sometime, long time no see!
Craig

 

[PelagicMagic]

Good points on both sides but I think you should give Bio-reef another shot, its a great store.

 

[mecold]

Jack, John, and Craig are guilty of getting me in trouble with my wife on several occasions. I can't tell you how many times I went in to pick up something little or just look around on my various trips to jax and ended up buying a coral I just had to have. Actually I can tell you since it is about once a month, sometimes more On a side note, is it a bad sign when the lfs knows you by name :lolspin:

I do however shop at all of the local stores when I am near them, but bioreef is one of my must stop places.

Dez,

It was great meeting you at the last meeting. Give the guys at bioreef a chance, in the long run I promise you will get way more in savings on livestock and drygoods (cheaper than many online companies) than the $35 those fire fish cost you. Of course, I can name several other jax stores that are just as good about keeping you happy.