balling vs calcium reactor for sps?

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13813499#post13813499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uhuru
Todd do you think balling would be better for a new sps tank? I'm thinking of how the CA requirements will be changing over the course of the next couple of years. Constantly adjusting the CA Rx sounds like more of a PITA than adjusting a computerized doser like the profilux standalone unit. What do you think? I have no experience with Ca Rx. I used an LMIII before with 2 part and found it to be really easy. Only thing was like you said the raising salinity. But adjusting the CA and alk was as simple as pushing a button.

I really think the Profilux dosers are sweet, and I can see myself upgrading to one in the future. Great units that make the dosing ultra easy. I agree that for ease of use, 2-Part/Balling is really the winner. But you do have to watch out for salinity rising, and be aware of possible chloride build up over time (ionic unbalance). I don't consider these big deals, but some might prefer a Ca Rx and not having to worry about these issues. I think they are much easier to deal with than the equipment hassles with Ca Rx's... That's not my thing, fiddling with equipment, others may feel the exact opposite.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13813754#post13813754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
I The Balling Method and two part are pretty much the same. The one difference I have observed is that the Balling Method uses chloride free parts so rising SG is not an issue.

Actually adding chloride free mineral salts increases the salinity of a system even more (it's just more salt afterall). Adding the the NaCl free mineral salts is about adressing the ionic imbalance possible in such systems. When adding so much chloride salts with the dosing supplements, over time the level of sodium chloride will probably increase, while the minor salts normally present in our tanks in smaller percentages (potassium, bromide, among others) will probably fall. The addition of chloride free mineral salts, as practiced by traditional balling, addresses these issues. However, many Europeans ("Balling Light"), as well as Randy Hiolmes Farley here on RC with 2-Part, doubt that chloride build up is much of an issue with regular water changes.

But if you do add NaCl free mineral salts, then your salinity will increase even more. Traditional balling address this by removing small amounts of aquarium water (the totals that you are dosing in general) throughout the day, along side the dosing.

 

[The_Wonderboy]

so to combat the low ph effluent from the ca rx could you dose the effluent where the water enters the sump for a pretty decent gas exchange and also run a kalk stirrer for the ato?

 

[JSM]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly is the balling method?

Janna

 

[Genetics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13816495#post13816495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JSM
what exactly is the balling method?
[/B]

The balling method utilizes addition of minerals using salts but lack sodium chloride. Thereby allowing salinity to stay at equilibrium while introducing used minerals such as calcium, magnesium.

 

[Leonardo_]

Without going too much offtopic, when using the Balling-method you will introduce sodium and chloride (by using CalciumChloride and SodiumCarbonate) and salinity will rise.
Only the Ca and Carbonate ions are used in calcification.
NaCl-free salt have to be used partially when you do a waterchange to prevent accumulation of NaCl.

Leonardo

 

[The_Wonderboy]

when balling what is the reason for the 2 different sources of magnesium? magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate

 

[Leonardo_]

To remain the ionic balance

 

[photobret]

I am about to start the balling complete method myself, after much research I have found that Cherry Corals and their sponsor forum here on RC have been the most helpful. Going to combine Bulk Reef Supply Salts, Doser and use Cherry Corals for NaCl free salts and Ultramin S. Looking forward to it!!!

 

[Ty1e]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13816685#post13816685 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Leonardo_
Without going too much offtopic, when using the Balling-method you will introduce sodium and chloride (by using CalciumChloride and SodiumCarbonate) and salinity will rise.
Only the Ca and Carbonate ions are used in calcification.
NaCl-free salt have to be used partially when you do a waterchange to prevent accumulation of NaCl.

Leonardo

So Leonardo, do you mix this NaCl- free salt with you normal salt mix(RBS) ( 1/2 and 1/2) every month?

Or is it added on it's own?

I didn't see anything in the bulk reef supply web site that spoke of doseing this NaCl-free salt when useing there 2-part system, or is this just for true balling?

 

[Leonardo_]

Some that use the Balling (Light) Method (2-part is the same as Balling-Light) don't use the NaCl free salt, but in Germany they recommend it to use it to prevent problems in relation to ionic inbalance.
You have to calculate how many NaCl free salt you have to use. It depends on the amount of solution you dose.

This is a online calculator for all the solutions in the right amounts (incl. NaCl free salt) It is in German but not very complicated:

http://home.arcor.de/chronz/aquaristik/tips_tricks/ballingcalc.htm

I switched to a CaRx+KalkwasserRX so I don't use Balling anymore. The salt I use at the moment is 1/2 Reefers Best, and 1/2 another salt (Red Sea Premium, Tropic Marin etc.)

Leonardo

 

[Todd March]

For my quasi version of balling, currently for my small lightly loaded (but lots of coralline and snails) system I use:

90 ml of soda ash solution per day
65 ml of calcium solution per day

60 ml of magnesium solution per week

20 grams of NaCl free salt a week, added to my weekly water change mix

 

[unbreakable]

Are there any articles about the balling method on the internet?

 

[SunnyX]

Looking at the balling methods vs the Two Part I use now, the Balling Method would cost more to use.

I mention it because I am almost out of two part mix and am interested in the balling "light" method.

Any advantage of using balling over Randy's two part?

 

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13828920#post13828920 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by unbreakable
Are there any articles about the balling method on the internet?

There's not a lot in English. Here are some threads, articles to check out...

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13828920#post13828920 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by unbreakable
Are there any articles about the balling method on the internet?

http://glassbox-design.com/2008/the-balling-method-how-does-it-differ-from-two-part/

 

[Leonardo_]

Balling light is exactly the same thing as the 2-part method. Full Balling also use Magnesium.

Leonardo

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13829129#post13829129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Leonardo_
Balling light is exactly the same thing as the 2-part method. Full Balling also use Magnesium.

Leonardo

Ok, I will stick with what I have right now. My two part(really three part when you add Magnesium) is doing a great job.

Thank you.

 

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13829092#post13829092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
...Any advantage of using balling over Randy's two part?

Some would argue system stability is the advantage of full Balling, others say that the build up of sodium/chloride is not an issue with regular WC's... Guess it depends a lot on what you keep in your tank. Acroporas for instance can be more sensitive to water quality. Some Euro reefers anecdotally claim that corals such as Acropora suharsonoi can be stressed by higher chloride levels...

 

[Leonardo_]

For the Topicstarter: In this thread you can find much about your initial question:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1134839

leonardo

 

[Ty1e]

here's a link to the bulk reef supply you tube vid on 2 part/balling light meathod.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Two-Part-Kits/c52/p267/The-Total-Two-Part-Package/product_info.html