Bangai Cardinals are choking!!! Help

Doug Piranha

New member
Hi,

My first set of 23 Bangai Cardinals are down to 11. At 2-now 3 weeks they choke on the newly hatched brine shrimp. ANy help is appreciated.

Details:

Decapsulated brine shrimp
Tried slow feeding brine shrimp
Tried rinsing brine shrimp
Tried acclimating brine shrimp and then feeding
Tried frozen brine shrimp. lol
They sometimes come back from the dead after -10 minutes.
Their mouth wretches open when they choke.


Thanks in advance

Kurt
 
My babies eat newly hatched brine from day one without a problem. By 3 weeks, they should be eating adult brine shrimp. I don't know what could be causing the choking, but a normal baby should be able to easily swallow BBS as soon as they are released from the male.
 
Sorry for your losses. Are they just acting like they are fainting.Bangai are know for this.Ive even seen adults do this.My best luck with this situation was to actualy go in ther with a stir stick and move them around,this will cure 90% of your problem. Also after you remove your BBS from the hatching area rinse them and put them in a new batch of water.I was usually able to siphon out most of the BBS without getting much of the eggs.By this time you should be able to start mixing frozen BBS with the live ones and start weening off live. GOOD LUCK.
 
fainting or choking?
fianting = SFS (sudden fright syndrome- a lack of HUFAs in the diet
choking= food too big.
I suspect your fish are experiencing SFS
 
I think Frank nailed it. Try soaking the hatched nauplii in some selcon for a couple of hours before feeding in order to boost the HUFA's.
 
SFS

SFS

Thank you for all the replys so far.

SFS, they do occasionally come back from the dead. But the problem always occurs when eating. Could it still be SFS?

When they passout, it looks like choking. Does that still apply to SFS?

I will start soaking the brine immediately. I am still holding at 12 and the male has another batch due July5th, lol.

They also feed on the decapsulated brine eggs and the problem seems to be better. They wont eat frozen bbs yet.


Kurt
 
SFS

SFS

Thank you for all the replys so far.

SFS, they do occasionally come back from the dead. But the problem always occurs when eating. Could it still be SFS?

When the passout, it looks like choking. Does that still apply to SFS?

I will start soaking the brine immediately. I am still holding at 12 and the male has another batch due July5th, lol.

They also feed on the decapsulated brine eggs and the problem seems to be better. They wont eat frozen bbs yet.


Kurt
 
Yes that would apply,and thats when I saw it happen most. Im not real hip on technical terms but I do remember that SFS,some where in the past.Just A little swirling of water around them to get them off the bottom and they would come back to life like nothing ever happened,so weird.If this is your 1st batch it will get easier,from separating pops and kids to growing them out to BBS raising.Just remember,you my not get alot for them,but they are homegrown,and priceless in your eyes. As stated before at about 2 weeks start mixing frozen BBS,and finely crushed flake food and you are home free.Remember when you add this new food combo try to have water movement so the food will move around(IMO this is key.)they are pigs.

Buddy you should be set.

goodluck keep us posted
 
kurt-
your descriptions fit exactly what sudden fright syndrome is, essentially a short circuiting of the nervous system during simulation. In your case, the ingestion of food was the stimuli-
sometimes they do recover after their fainting spells, sometimes, not, and as mentioned swirling of the water is frequently all that is needed.

Heres a section on SFS from an article i published last yr (banggers are my term for baby banggai cardinalfish)

Frequently I’ll read or hear about breeders experiencing a “fainting or heart attack like syndrome”, in which the banggers receive a stimuli, such as turning lights on suddenly, or quickly adding large volumes of food to the grow out tank. The fry will freeze and start drifting, motionless to the bottom of the tank. This general phenomenon is considered sudden fright syndrome (SFS). What actually happens is the stimuli essentially short-circuits (shocks) the nervous system and the fish becomes paralyzed. Depending on the severity and frequency of the event(s), it is often lethal. However, what SFS really means is a nutritional insufficiency during development, primarily a lack of highly unsaturated fatty acids during the development of the fry.
Briefly, all animals require certain polyunsaturated fatty acids in their diet, two essential fatty acids were noted as critical during development, Omega-3 and
Omega-6 fatty acids, which are an key components of cellular membranes, and are critical in the development of nervous tissue, such as brains, eyes, as well as heart and the innervations to the heart. Omega-6 fatty acids principally originate from animal sources (such as animal fats), while Omega-3 fatty acids are derived from plants. Importantly, Omega-3 fatty acids tend to be lacking in the diet of captive animals, since plant based foods are rarely fed, therefore since fatty acids are not converted from one type to the other, a proper balance of both classes of fatty acids is important to the health and proper development. Important, to a fish breeder are the two Omega-3 HUFAs; are DHA (docosahaxaenoic acid: 22:6 n-3) and EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid: 20:5n-3), which are synthesized almost exclusively by marine algae, such as phytoplanktons.

While newly hatched baby brine shrimp (Artemia) are the main stay of first foods for banggers, they lack sufficient quantities of EPA & DHA, and most marine fish fed exclusively on baby brine can begin to die, due to lack of HUFAs. The good news is this situation and resulting SFS is readily corrected, through enrichment of BBS using phytoplanktons (alive or pastes) or if your using dead or prepared foods, then the use of a liquid HUFA suppliment such as Selco, Selcon, Zoecon, etc. Feeding the BBS with phytoplanktons overnight or hours before using them for food is sufficient, and after a week feeding of enriched BBS the fry shouldn’t experience SFS.

Common features of HUFA deficiency are
1) Sudden fright syndrome: shock, convulsion or death when the animals are frightened
2) High mortality and disease rates, particularly when stressed
3) Worn or eroding fins.
4) Poor growth rates
5) Poor vision, and reduced ability to locate prey;
6) Sudden massive die offs during early development
7) Low egg viability or infertility in adults
8) Inability to heal after wounding.
 
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