Bar 300DD with fish room

[dwhanc00]

OK, I am at a point were I need some feedback before making my final decision for the tank. First let me tell you a little about our plans. We are going to do an in-wall viewable from two sides (maybe three if I can swing it), front and right side. The fish room will total about 60 sq. ft when complete. The bar ledge will go from wall and wrap around the tank. Hopefully putting a fridge (dorm size) and shelves to the left of the tank (would like to have a view of the left side of tank, think it is possible????). Attached is a sketch of the plans.

Some of my dilemma:
-I was thinking of customizing the overflow and taking out the one on the right side of tank. In the left overflow I was planning to do either 4 2" or 4 1 1/2" bulkhead holes. Two would be for overflow, one for fail safe, and the other for the return. I was thinking 2" b/c you can always use reducers and it provides options for additional flow. See any issues with this?
-Originally I was going to put a 125 gallon refugium/sump under the tank. I found a 100 gallon stock tank and was thinking of just using this and stocking it with around 300 lbs of rock and maybe a 4" sand bed - just throwing this idea around - major concern is algae and phosphate control, bubbles in the return line and skimmer placement. Should I feed a refugium first (with skimmer section and chaeto) from the tank then gravity feed it to the 100 gallon?
-Next I want to feed a frag tank off of the main tank. This is were I am going to need suggestions/help (any volunteers?) with the plumbing. I would think I would want to split off the main return line going to the frag tank. The frag tank will be right next to the tank on the right side (if you are viewing from the back of tank). I would imagine I could split off the return then gravity feed it back to the 100 gallon stock tank? Suggestions here?
-The last thing I want is plumbing coming off the frag tank to a hospital tank. I would want to have the ability to close off this system when needed for quarantine or pest/hospital needs. I was thinking of putting a 29 gallon tank with a small refugium and skimmer attached, but not running 24/7. When I need it I would like to open a valve to fill and then get the refugium and skimmer running and shut off the valve. I could then place some live rock from the 100 gallon stock and some chaeto from my sump for additional filtration. My only concern is a cycle.
-Equipment: Lighting: 3 250W MH (coralvue ballast and Lumen Bright Wide pendants w/glass), thinking 14k bulbs (vs 20K now), two VHO 60" (as blue as possible)and two purple T5's - 48"; Dart return pump; aqua III pro controller (upgrading from a JR); need skimmer recommendations for this set up (thinking reeflo 250 pro version); two vortec MP40's, one Tunze 6100, and two Korilla 3's.

Well thats what I have so far. I would appreciate suggestions/comments on the custom tank stuff ASAP so I can get it ordered today or tomorrow. Thanks for looking, looking forward to the feedback.

 

[EnderG60]

Absolutly do an external overflow, I REALLY wish I had on mine but didnt know they would do it. Mine is done with 4 1" holes, one for return and 3 for the bean overflow system. Im pushing 1500gph through it no problem, but I also have a closed loop for flow.

For mine I have a 100g fuge with about 200lbs of rock and a cheato ball in it, which flows into a 50g sump. if you do a sand bed in there, put in a partition so you can clean out half of it every year or so without screwing up the whole sand bed.

I also have a frag tank(2 40g breeders located above the sump) and its just T'ed off my return line and drains right back into the fuge.

One of my frag tanks doubles has a hospital tank. I have a HOB filter which is always running and cycled on it so if i need to QT anything I can just toss them in there and turn of the supply line.

Up your lights to 400's. I have 3 400w radium 20k's in custom luminarc style reflectors (they are 18"x32")on mine now and the color is fantastic but the Par levels are still a bit lower then I want. Im going to add 4 3' T5's around the tank, but I may upgrade to 400w HQI's for that extra umph.

Also make it 3 side viewable, wether you just make the left side of the bar an L or do the tank peninsula style.

 

[dwhanc00]

I was looking at the design from someone on here (can't think of his screen name right now) that has the 4 2" that overflow to the left of the tank. He also has it drilled in 8 different spots and 3 four way ocean motions. A bit more than I am willing to invest in right now. LOVE the design and flow, just economically unable to do it. Wish I could, but just having the right overflow gone will satisfy me. Of course assuming no one sees something wrong with the four 2" holes (or 1 1/2"). Still waiting on the final price for the extra hole and custom work, I might just fax his design over for a quote. Main concern is going up and over with the return (siphon).

My plan is to have the most of my flow generated by wave makers. I might even get two more MP40's for a total of 3 (also have the tunze 6100 and 2 korilla 3's for dead spots). Plan to put the K3's behind rock work to hide.

 

[dwhanc00]

I think I found a tank that I do not have to order. The guy was going to set it up but decided his office 700 gallon was enough! Guess I will have to deal with the right overflow, not a big deal. He did upgrade his overflow to 1" and 1 1/2", so that is good. Just need to figure out how to use one of them as a fail safe... any ideas?

 

[dwhanc00]

OK, need some more help... I promise get some more pictures of were the tank is going in the next day or two, just nothing exciting so far!

I was wondering if anyone has a link or two with articles on transitioning from one tank to another. I am about to order some dry rock for my new 300DD and want to start preparing for the transition. It is probably at least a month away, but if I need to cure the rock or cycle the new tank, I want to get started thinking through the process. I also plan to treat everything in my current system before putting it in the new display. I do not have any specific pests in my current system (that I am aware) but I want to be extra safe and take all the precautions for the new tank. I have been reading about various pests on rocks and one looked kind of like a feather duster (called Hydroids).

In the quarantine process, what does everyone do? Treat for everything, nothing just observe, treat for typical pests (red bugs, AEFW, stars, etc.)? Little things like the spiral snails are considered pest from what I have read, is there any way to be completely safe? What would everyone recommend with my existing rock? We have a few nuisance things in the rocks (stars, the spiral things, and feather duster looking things under the rocks), just wonder how to rid them for the new display. I am willing to use all new bleached rock in the display and put my current rock in the sump, but I do have several rocks with large corals attached that will need to go in the new tank.

Look forward to everyone's thoughts!

 

[dwhanc00]

Well construction begins today! :dance: I know everyone likes pictures and I will try and keep them coming. Here is a picture of the area we have to work with. The partially built wall will be coming down for additional room. I have also put a picture of what will be moving downstairs in about a month or so. Exciting times!!!!

 

[dwhanc00]

Made some progress today. Took down the wall in the back and built the tank stand. I would appreciate any comments on the structure. The guy who built it is not a "fish" guy, just does construction. We can add if needed. Here are a few pictures.

 

[Untamed12]

Looks OK. Might be a bit saggy in the dead centre. There is no picture showing if he added any horizontal beams across the top centre.

Of course, the structure as is has no lateral strength. (you could push it sideways) That lateral strength will come if you place plywood sheets on the sides, which I assume is part of the plan.

 

[dwhanc00]

THANKS Untamed!!!! Just what I am looking for! I appreciate the response. If you look at the picture, were the center brace is in the middle there are two horizontal boards on each side of the vertical center brace. Also probably not obvious in the pictures is we have a 3/4" piece of plywood attached to the top for additional support. We are also framing the tank as an in-wall. The left side will be attached to the drywall and we will be using liquid nail and shooting nails/screws (he is going to secure through the grout) through the base.

When you say "lateral strength" sould I use some additional plywood to secure the left and right side of the stand or will the framing and drywall (I know that is not much support) do the job?

Sorry, I left out some details. I REALLY want to make sure I am doing this right. PLEASE, any feedback is welcome. I am not a construction person or an engineer so I need the help of the wonderful people here! I will gladly take additional pictures or anything you need for clarification.

THANKS AGAIN!!!!!

 

[murfman]

Follow in this build, love the bar builds!!!!

 

[dwhanc00]

Glad to have you tagging along murfman! Plan on painting the stand today, getting ready for framing tomorrow. I would appreciate any additional comments on the stand and whether you all think it is adequately built. I could also add some horizontal supports on the bottom, I would just need to add plywood to hold my 100 gallon stock tank.

Let me know. Thanks!

 

[Untamed12]

Follow in this build, love the bar builds!!!!

Yes..me too!

Yes, if you can screw plywood onto the left and right ends, that will give you lateral support in the front-back direction. If the front of the stand and back of the stand were to remain open like that (or have doors on them), then the stand would be weak in the left-right direction.

Attaching it to the wall on the left will help, but isn't that important if you plywood the left and right sides.

What do you have planned for the front and back sides? If you have to leave the front and back uncovered, try to strengthen the corners with some triangular plywood.

Note that even if the stand feels stable now, it will behave differently when it has weight on top of it.

Here's a link to my stand build...might help. My stand is encased in 1/2 ply on three sides.
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28436

 

[crvz]

Looks like a fun build!

I sketched up a quick stand design for my own 300DD in-wall build, and while it uses a 2x8 top brace, I actually got good feedback that it would be fine. I do not plan on adding any plywood for extra shear support. You can see the design and some feedback over here.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16793298#post16793298

Undoubtedly, the plywood would help (and would be a good consideration if you're not worried about the access), but in my experience a lumber-only stand will suffice. Some things I may do differently, though, is to joint/plane the lumber and glue the legs together (in lieu of just screws), and that type of precision does increase overall structural integrity.

 

[dwhanc00]

No construction yesterday so I got the stand painted and water tested and cleaned the 100 gallon stock tank. Just to clarify a few points. We will be adding additional braces to the stand on the sides once we have the stock tank in there. For some reason I was able to get the stock out, but now it will not twist, believe it is the top support braces we added preventing it. At lease we can still take it up and over.

My little helpers are in the picture! Today the plan is to finish up the framing and hopefully hang the drywall. Weather permitting we might go get the tank! :beer:

 

[Lightsluvr]

Are you going to have enough clearance under your stand to work inside the Rubbermaid sump?

I use a pair of Rubbermaid stock tanks in my system, plus a 95G acrylic which now serves just to hold water which flows back from the DT and other sumps when return pump power is off...

I used a 100G Rubbermaid in the manner you suggested in your first post - a 6-8" DSB covered by about 400" LR for addiitonal filtration. Gotta love those stock tanks. Hint: Go ahead and replace the "bulkhead" which comes with the tank. They are likely to leak - not a good thing since they are located at the bottom!

JME.

LL

 

[dwhanc00]

I hope there is enough room! Never had one, we have 13" to the supports under the stand and 16" to the plywood. Do you think that is enough room?

The guy doing my plumbing uses a rubbermaid stock as well, so he knows how to plumb it. He does not even use the stock return, I believe he drills a new hole. He does it for a living, so I am comfortable with his abilities.

Here are a few pics with the stock under the stand, remember we will be adding some support for drywall and additional stability for the stand in the middle. Any last minute suggestions? Framing is starting!:beer:

 

[aquavista99]

Wow, Dave, you move very fast! Looking forward to your new tank build! Can't blame Ed for not wanting to run two large tanks at different locations. Sounds like more work than fun. I am not sure what you mean by "fail safe", but the Marineland tanks are designed and tested by engineers and I would have no worries just using the dual overflow design with the standard overflow kit.

Congratulations on the new tank. Trish must be very happy! Looking forward to updated pictures!

I think I found a tank that I do not have to order. The guy was going to set it up but decided his office 700 gallon was enough! Guess I will have to deal with the right overflow, not a big deal. He did upgrade his overflow to 1" and 1 1/2", so that is good. Just need to figure out how to use one of them as a fail safe... any ideas?

 

[dwhanc00]

Tim, Thanks, yes Trish and I both are VERY excited. It is moving a lot faster than originally expected. THANKS ED! I do not plan to add water for another month or so. We have some dry rock coming in tomorrow. I am going to build my rock work and start curing it. Then I need to get a hospital tank and start the quarantine/pest control for the acros. Once we accomplish this I want to cook my rock that is in my current system to rid it of phospate and any unwanted pests.

Like you, I want to make sure the new system is as close as possible to pest free and clean.

By "fail safe" I mean for overflow clogs. I have also read that one complaint of the large marineland tanks is the flow rate. We are going to be running a hammerhead so we need the additional flow so I thought we could just go up and over for the return lines.

Thoughts?

 

[dwhanc00]

More progress pictures...

 

[mgers21]

Looking great, can't wait to see the finished product!