Bare Bottom QT tank won't start cycle :(

[jolt07]

Hello everyone.

I started 2 quarantine tanks 4 weeks ago. Both 20 gallon long tanks. One for fish the other for corals/inverts. The one for fish is bare bottom, no rock/sand just a sponge filter.. In both i added 2 ounces of dr tims one and only. I dosed 2PPM of dr tims ammonium chloride in the fish QT and i put in a chunk of raw tilapia in the invert QT. The invert QT has dry rock and sand. After 3 weeks my ammonia on the invert QT is basically 0 and the nitrites are 5+. However my fish QT is still stuck at 2ppm ammonia. After week 3 i changed the sponge filter for a canister filter (i put the sponges in the canister filter) thinking that maybe there wasn't enough surface area since it is a bare bottom with not rock/sand. I also added another bio bottle from petco/topfin. One week later ammonia still reads 2ppm. Nitrites/Nitrates 0. I started adding seachem seed on week 4. So far nothing.

The invert QT still showing 5ppm nitrites but at least it is progressing. I have added some sponges and extra rocks in the invert QT to let them seed and hopefully be able to put them in the fish QT within a few weeks if nothing changes.


I'm also cycling 2 main tanks that i just started. a 20 gallon cube and a 40 gallon cube. For the 20 gallon i added 2ppm of dr tims ammonium chloride and for the 40 i added a piece of tilapia.

Any other thoughts?

 

[griss]

I’ve never used bottled bacteria to cycle so I won’t be much help. But, I’ll try to call in some help…

@kharmaguru @JCOLE @wvned @Reefing102 @Dr. Reef

 

[Reefing102]

I’m on vacation currently, but if I’m not mistaken, most bottled bacteria cycles are complete at day 10 regardless of what test kits say. I believe @Dr. Reef even did a study on it.

However, an issue you may be running into, and I may be wrong, is you have no place in the fish QT for the bacteria to colonize and grow besides the water column. I don’t know how or if that plays into bottled bacteria cycles.

 

[wvned]

Sorry I was in the ER yesterday and am not at 100% so the short version.
The few times I used bottled bacteria the results were mixed. It is a live product. If not handled correctly what you buy isn't live anymore. I have used Dr Tims and had good results with a bottle I got from them on the net right before I used it.
With brands from local stores. It seems like I only got the expected results about 1/4th of the time. I quit doing that. To expensive.
If you are running sponge filters either power of air driven you should have plenty of surface for bacterial growth.
You have a tank that is responding. Run the power filter on that tank for a day to seed it. then move it back and see after 24 hours if you have have a better response.
Did you use RODI and make the water or use any dechlorinated water? Some dechlorinators make some ammonia test kits not work as they should. You get false results. Especially API ammonia test. It's chemistry the test uses and not the brand.
Live bacteria should show results in 24-36 hours. It is after all exponential growth. Nothing should take weeks to respond. Given weeks you may be seeing results from natural denitrifies colonizing your tanks from the environment. The point of buying bottled is it is supposed to be faster so you can change tank set up as needed.
Check your testing. Take a glass of tank water and dilute it 50 with new water and test that. Does it read 1/ 2the ammonia level now. It should.
Starting a tank with bottled stuff is a fixed process with active results. This much of this and that much of that should do this. 48 hours is plenty. Testing every 8 hours will tell you it is working. If it is a dud waiting probably isn't going to help. Empty it and start again checking your method. I have no patients anyway.
Hope that helps.

 

[jolt07]

I used RODI reading 0 TDS. I have had 2 sponges sitting with my rocks in the invert Quarantine for 1 weeks. I didn't hook an air stone or anything just let them sit. I can add those to the tank tonight. I'll do the diluted test tonight. Thanks for the info.

 

[wvned]

Nd that's fine to start them. Just squeze them out in the tank a few times a day to get new water into them. To be effective filters the water has to circulate through them though.
I use these when I set up a hospital tank. The capacity is pretty good. Easy to maintain.

 

[jolt07]

That's the exact one I had on my fish QT. It ran for 3 weeks before I got a canister filter and packed it full of bio media.

 

[jolt07]

That's the exact one I had on my fish QT. It ran for 3 weeks before I got a canister filter and packed it full of bio media.

I should say I still have it and can run it on the invert QT.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I did a 2 yr very extensive study on 10 different bottle bacteria. Turbostart 900 was always the best in every category. You do need something in there fo the bacteria to colonize on. We use small ceramic media bricks or balls or rings to harbor bacteria in our small qt tanks.
With Turbostart you dose the tank 3-5 times more than recommended dose and introduce fish.
I just started a 400 gal personal tank last week. Everything dry, dry sand dry new rock and fresh saltwater. Dosed half gal of fritz turbostart 900 in it and introduced 20 tangs and 6 pair of clowns and many other angels and butterflies and fish. i think i have a total of 35-40 fish in there for a week now and only dead fish is 1 clown rest are eating like pigs and happy as they can be.

 

[shred5]

Not all bacteria in a bottle is viable when you get it either. Poor storage, old etc.

 

[wvned]

Turbo start is what I used on the 240 to knock down the ammonia from shipping the live rock. What I remember was it worked well but was pricy. I think the LFS kept it refrigerated.

 

[jolt07]

I did a 2 yr very extensive study on 10 different bottle bacteria. Turbostart 900 was always the best in every category. You do need something in there fo the bacteria to colonize on. We use small ceramic media bricks or balls or rings to harbor bacteria in our small qt tanks.
With Turbostart you dose the tank 3-5 times more than recommended dose and introduce fish.
I just started a 400 gal personal tank last week. Everything dry, dry sand dry new rock and fresh saltwater. Dosed half gal of fritz turbostart 900 in it and introduced 20 tangs and 6 pair of clowns and many other angels and butterflies and fish. i think i have a total of 35-40 fish in there for a week now and only dead fish is 1 clown rest are eating like pigs and happy as they can be.

I was trying to find the turbo start locally. Need to search further out as my closest LFS didn't have it. I packed my canister filter full of plastic bio balls and fluval bio sponge. I'm thinking it should be plenty of space now if or the bacteria to thrive.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I was trying to find the turbo start locally. Need to search further out as my closest LFS didn't have it. I packed my canister filter full of plastic bio balls and fluval bio sponge. I'm thinking it should be plenty of space now if or the bacteria to thrive.

in my study, turbostart 900 was the best with dr tims one and only and Instant ocean Bio Spira tied as 2nd.
If you dont find turbostart look for the other 2. Petco and Petsmart will have bio spira likely, but i wouldnt trust it as i trust turbostart.
If there is ammonia in your tank pour the recomended amount of bio spira or dt tims in and wait a few days till you start seeling ammonia dropping.
Also what can stall a cycle is lack of carbon souce so feed you tank every 3rd day with some fish food. Also bacteria gorws faster in hyposalinity than full salinity. Make sure pH is above 8.0 and alk is above 9 as well ideally 11 dkh at least through cycling. once cycle is over you can adjust those numbers.

 

[Dr. Reef]

My original study was at another website, so i copy pasted the main posts from there and brought it here. Orginial study is over hundred pages. If you wanna look it up you can find it on another reef website. But a cleaned up version is link below.

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...

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