Bashsea protein skimmer

[Andyr005]

Picked up a bashsea skimmer today, got it hooked up and running. The first pump I hooked up to it was a rio plus 3100hp. After about 15min it was filling up with so much foam it was coming out the top. However the foam looked clean. Then I hooked up a rio 2500. This one still still foams over into the collection cup with a bunch of water and is filling my secondary collection container with water. But it isn't foaming out the top. With the second pump it took over half an hour for it to start foaming that much. About half an hour after that the foam isn't even reaching high enough to collect in the reservoir. Then after that it starts to fill up again. The foam doesn't even look scummy. Thing is i was told that even the 3100 was a little weak of pump for this skimmer. This is my first skimmer and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong if anything

 

[slief]

That is a beckett skimmer and requires a pressure rated external pump such as an Iwaki MD55. The Rio as well as other internal pumps are not the right pump for that skimmer as they don't produce the pressure to make the beckett valve function properly. Without enough pressure and flow, the valve won't generate fine enough let alone enough fine bubbles to generate good foam. Some might sugggest a DC pump but having run Beckett skimmers before, I can tell you will confidence and experience that they are not the right pump for a beckett skimmer. Beckett skimmers need pressure rated pumps and there are no affordable DC based let alone internal pressure rated pumps. Until you get the correct pump on that skimmer, it will not run properly.

I will also note that while Beckett skimmers are great skimmers when setup properly with the proper pump, they require pumps that are extremely inefficient and consume a lot of power. They also require weekly cleaning of the beckett valves in order to run consistently. As such, for a first skimmer, I am not sure that would have been a great choice. A standard internal skimmer would be much more practical, more fool proof and much less maintenance.

 

[Andyr005]

How do pressure rated pumps differ from the submersibles that I have?

 

[slief]

How do pressure rated pumps differ from the submersibles that I have?

They are completely different animals. A beckett valve creates MAJOR back/head pressure. A pressure pump is designed to overcome high pressure while producing lots of flow. A submersible pump isn't designed for high head pressure and while some flow may make it past the beckett valve, it will not be anywhere near enough to generate the fine bubbles and the volume of bubbles that a beckett skimmer is designed to produce and needs in order to operate properly. A pressure rated pump is designed to push water well in excess of 20 feet. A submersible pump can't pump anywhere near that kind of head and cuts off. When you apply a lot of pressure to the non pressure rated pump such as a submersible, the flow rates drop off dramatically and the valve will not operate properly and won't draw in the amount of air required while also receiving the kind of water flow required to get the skimmer performing as it should.

 

[Andyr005]

But if the skimmer wasn't getting enough flow wouldn't it foam less not excessively

 

[slief]

Here is a reasonably good explanation of the differences between pressure and non pressure. .
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1661160

 

[Andyr005]

Just also as an extra piece of info, when I was testing everything out the skimmer didn't foam nearly as much, even with the larger pump. But I was testing with plain hose water

 

[biecacka]

I believe it needs saltwater to foam correctly. And you will need a pressure rated pump for a Beckett, I ran one until recently.

Corey

 

[slief]

Just also as an extra piece of info, when I was testing everything out the skimmer didn't foam nearly as much, even with the larger pump. But I was testing with plain hose water

You need salt water for proper foam fractioning. As such, you will not make foam with tap water nor will the level in the skimmer be anywhere near correct. Even so, beckett valves require pressure rated pumps for proper operation.

 

[Andyr005]

As far as the pressure rated pump goes. Let me just make sure I'm fully understanding. It will allow more flow through the skimmer which will essentially cause it to pull more air and create finer bubbles which will capture more waste. But if I'm having too much foam already won't the pressure rated pump make it worse, similar to when I had the 3100 on there? Or is there something I'm still missing about the significants of the pressure rated pump? Or will the foam reduce with the pressure pump even though there is more flow?

 

[slief]

As far as the pressure rated pump goes. Let me just make sure I'm fully understanding. It will allow more flow through the skimmer which will essentially cause it to pull more air and create finer bubbles which will capture more waste. But if I'm having too much foam already won't the pressure rated pump make it worse, similar to when I had the 3100 on there? Or is there something I'm still missing about the significants of the pressure rated pump? Or will the foam reduce with the pressure pump even though there is more flow?

Yes and no.. You cannot judge your foam or bubbles in fresh water to begin with. Skimmers do not work in fresh water so you can't base anything on what you are seeing now with the skimmer running in fresh water. Pumps produce "X" amount of flow. When you introduce air into the skimmer, the water that is being pumped into the skimmer is displaced by air so there is less water and more air going into the skimmer. Water in the skimmer raises the water level. When the water is displaced by air, the level in the skimmer drops. Since air displaces water, more air doesn't necessarily mean your level will be higher in the skimmer. Infact, it's typically the opposite. When the beckett valve is functioning properly, you get proper balance between air and water. With the incorrect pump, that balance will not be correct. The bubbles will be larger and the foam won't be as dense and you won't strip the dissolved organics as efficiently. Like I said, I've run Beckett skimmers before. I've built my own skimmers and I presently work for a skimmer manufacturer. Trust me when I tell you, you have the wrong pump for that skimmer and anything you think you know about that skimmer will go right out the window when you have it running in salt water.

 

[Andyr005]

Yes and no.. You cannot judge your foam or bubbles in fresh water to begin with. Skimmer do not work in fresh water so you can't base anything on what you are seeing now with the skimmer running in fresh water. Pumps produce "X" amount of flow. When you introduce air into the skimmer, the water that is being pumped into the skimmer is displaced by air so there is less water and more air going into the skimmer. Water in the skimmer raises the water level. When the water is displaced by air, the level in the skimmer drops. Since air displaces water, more air doesn't necessarily mean your level will be higher in the skimmer. Infact, it's typically the opposite. When the beckett valve is functioning properly, you get proper balance between air and water. With the incorrect pump, that balance will not be correct. The bubbles will be larger and the foam won't be as dense and you won't strip the dissolved organics as efficiently. Trust me when I tell you, you have the wrong pump for that skimmer and anything you think you know about that skimmer will go right out the window when you have it running in salt water.

I only tested the pump in the freshwater before hooking it up to my tank. It wasn't until that I hooked it up to the tank that I ran into issues. That being said I'm buying a new pump. What are the suggestions. Manufacturer recommends 900-1200gph pump (that's why I originally thought the 3100 would work) Doesn't say anything about pressure rated but I'm going to take your word for it.

Btw thank you for all the info

 

[slief]

I only tested the pump in the freshwater before hooking it up to my tank. It wasn't until that I hooked it up to the tank that I ran into issues. That being said I'm buying a new pump. What are the suggestions. Manufacturer recommends 900-1200gph pump (that's why I originally thought the 3100 would work) Doesn't say anything about pressure rated but I'm going to take your word for it.

Btw thank you for all the info

As I said, an Iwaki MD55 is what I would recommend.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/iwaki-md-55rlt-japanese-motor-1080-gph.html

An alternative would be a Blueline 55HD.
http://www.aquacave.com/blueline-55-hd-external-aquarium-water-pump-by-pan-world.html

Before you go spend the money, you might rethink things and just gen an appropriately sized internal skimmer such as an AquaMaxx or Life Reef. Especially since this is your first skimmer. Both require less maintenance and will likely cost you less by the time you factor in what you can sell that Bashsea for and what it's going to cost you to get the correct pump. I'd suggest a Bubble King but I suspect you would be frightened by the cost.. :thumbsup:

Like I said, that beckett valve will need to be removed once a week or so for cleaning. Beckett skimmers are great skimmer when setup properly but they do require more maintenance, they consume much more power, they are noisy and a good quality efficient skimmer such as those I mentioned above will do the same job with much less maintenance, less noise, less power consumption and less cost.

 

[biecacka]

I ran the Iwaki 55 on my Beckett and it was a great pump. Those things run forever. Mine was 20 years old almost!!! Mine was t that noisy and in was in my living room, but you could hear a faint hiss from the Beckett sucking air. They do use more electricity and the do need cleaning on a regular. More regular than many other types of skimmers. That is true, however they do work great! Just need the patience to tune them and dial them in and clean them frequently.....

Corey

 

[Remmers]

Steve From Bashsea told me recently that a mag drive pump like a mag 12 or mag 18 is a great pump for his skimmers

To the OP did you get this skimmer from someone in oakland county who had it on c/l? I was looking at it and yesterday it was gone.

There great skimmers one you get them dialed in

 

[slief]

Steve From Bashsea told me recently that a mag drive pump like a mag 12 or mag 18 is a great pump for his skimmers

To the OP did you get this skimmer from someone in oakland county who had it on c/l? I was looking at it and yesterday it was gone.

There great skimmers one you get them dialed in

In my experience, the Mag's are marginal at best. They will work but still not anywhere near as good as a true pressure rated pump. The MAG 18 will do OK but as I said, Beckett valves require pressure rated pumps for best performance. This was clearly listed in the specs from Beckett when they were still making these valves. Also, the Mag 18 pulls 150 watts.. For that kind of power consumption, you might as well go with the pump that will make the skimmer perform at it's best.

 

[Andyr005]

I was the one who bought it on c/l. I emailed bashsea and Steve told me his skimmers do not require pressure rated pumps but they do work better with them. I'm waiting to hear more back. I sent some pictures of the plumbing to see if there is issues there. But I'm going to see if I can find a pressure rated since I don't mind doing maintenance on my equipment and from what I understand after I finally get it dialed in, it should be great.

 

[biecacka]

If you can find a pressure rated pump, get it. No they don't "require" them, but you'll need them to deal with the constant back pressure from the beckett injector. Non pressie rated pumps will end up damaged from the west and tear.

Corey

 

[Andyr005]

Just another update on the skimmer for all who may be interested. Steve from Bashsea emailed me back with a potential issue. The drain pipe is really long (which i added) and even though it is straight, being so long can create some back pressure raising the level in the skimmer. Also once I get the better pump he said adding a gate valve would allow me to control the level within the skimmer. Living locally to his shop he is allowing me to bring it in for an upgrade. For a minimal cost.... that being said my experience with bashsea so far has already made me a loyal customer. I will update after the upgrade.

 

[Andyr005]

Just the final update on the skimmer. I ended up using dc9000 for the pump on the skimmer per Steve bashi's suggetion. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, once I put a good pump on it the bubbles became much smaller and it didn't bubble over right away. However the skimmer needs to be "broken in". The variable speed really helped along with the gate valve. I had to start on a lower speed with the gate valve fully open and sped it up over several days. Otherwise it would foam up over the top, but it was foam not bubbles. Once I got it all the way up, the scum that collects is black. Can't believe what it's pulling out of the water. Once I clean it out though (the whole thing not just emptying the collection cup) I have to"break it in" again.