basic LED help

I didn't think this was much of an issue w/ LDD's.. some of the other AC/DC drivers had the problem that if you "hot wired" the LED string into an actively powered driver you'd toast the LED's..
That still holds true for any constant current driver. The driver works by slowly increasing the voltage until the output current reaches its target level. If there is nothing attached, the driver will be trying to output the maximum voltage it can (limited by the connected PSU). You connect an LED in that state and you have a high risk of frying your LED before the driver can react. Whether it will fry it depends on the LED, how much the voltage exceeds its max and how quickly the driver reacts.

But best bet is not to do it :)

I suspect powering up an LDD with nothing attached may not fry it if you have a PSU well below the max voltage input of the LDDs, but i won't (deliberately) be trying that, either :lol:

Tim
 
I got the LDD700H modules hooked up-they are about 3 times the size of LDD700L. As soon as the red side came on, it was bright for a second, then failed. An LED in each string died. I used my multimeter on diode setting to check. The exact same thing happened with the LDD700l modules. (I replaced a red LED in each string at that point)

The blue side seems fine. The max V at the blue side is 35.5. I get 36V on the dead red side.

The blue LEDs are Fc 700mA, Fv 3.4-4 and the red LEDs areFc700mA, Fv 2.5-3. For both red and blue I have four strings of ten LEDs.

Should the red strings be 12-13 LEDs long?

Also, I think the Arduino got damaged after all, a new one is on the way.
 
I got the LDD700H modules hooked up-they are about 3 times the size of LDD700L. As soon as the red side came on, it was bright for a second, then failed. An LED in each string died. I used my multimeter on diode setting to check. The exact same thing happened with the LDD700l modules. (I replaced a red LED in each string at that point)

The blue side seems fine. The max V at the blue side is 35.5. I get 36V on the dead red side.

The blue LEDs are Fc 700mA, Fv 3.4-4 and the red LEDs areFc700mA, Fv 2.5-3. For both red and blue I have four strings of ten LEDs.

Should the red strings be 12-13 LEDs long?

Also, I think the Arduino got damaged after all, a new one is on the way.

The red side LDD should regulate the voltage for you, when all LEDs are lighting it should output around 25-30volts to that string at approximately 700mA. Check all your connections for shorts to the heatsink. If it's outputting a straight 36 volts (and the PSU is putting in 36V then there is a problem on the red string somewhere) Kind of odd for one to fail so fast but not impossible.

Likewise on the blue string, if you'r putting in 36 volts to the driver and it's putting out 35.5 It's not likely driving the string with much current (likely nowhere near 700mA and surprising the LDD is not blinking them on/off as some have reported with undervoltage input) You may need to remove one LED from each blue string for the LDD to work properly.
 
sounds like the reds can't take 700ma..

JUST an example:
With LED red light
- Power: 1W
- Voltage: DC 2.2V~2.4V
- Current: 300~350mA
- Brightness: 30~40LM
- Wavelength: 620~660nm
 
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There was a short in one of the red strings. (no short in blue strings) But does that explain why I lost a red LED in all four strings, on two separate occasions?

When the blue side is dimmed way down, it does kinda twinkle-not what I'd exactly call a blink, maybe trying to blink?

I sure hope the red LEDs can take 700mA.

Thanks guys.
 
It does sound like the LEDs are not up to it. Try connecting just one to an LDD and see if it can take it. Usual precautions apply (make all connections with the power off and ensure the LED is sound on the heat sink).

Tim
 
I hooked up a single red LED to the 'red' side of the scrubber and a single red LED to the 'blue' side of the scrubber. One burned out immediately and the other was OK until I adjusted the dimmer to full power. Could a resistor or something be installed somewhere, or do I need to find different red LEDs? I remember you guys warned me about cheap eBay LEDs, but I'd already placed the order.
 
With an LDD700 you are not going to get less than 700mA even with more LEDs or resistors until you run out of voltage from the supply to hit it. It will just compensate for the extra effort to supply a steady 700 with more and more volts. You could instead get LDD350s or LDD300s if you think the LEDs are 350 max, or get LEDs actually capable of 700mA.
 
That's what I was afraid of ):

I get 36.1V at both dead red LEDs, the very same as the power supply. Is that normal?
 
With just one led you are effectively measuring from the positive pin of the driver to the negative pin on the driver, which is trying to drive 700mA across the gap (which is hopefully open, not closed). Unable to do so (because the circuit is open), it raised the voltage and tried again, and again, until it capped out at the supply voltage. So yes, it sounds normal to me.

If the LED had failed closed, it would probably be at a really low voltage as the driver would be shorted, and able to drive 700mA at basically any voltage. Though i don't know if the driver would like being shorted, and might be unable to regulate the current at that point and shut down instead.
 
That's what I was afraid of ):

I get 36.1V at both dead red LEDs, the very same as the power supply. Is that normal?

sort of, I'd expect slightly lower V (assuming the 2-3V loss) but once the LED is dead, the LDD will just ramp voltage till it can't anymore..

Probably cheaper to replace the LDD w/ one that matches..
That value can be found but probably a bit beyond what you want to do..
unless someone knows an easy way to do it other than a variable power supply and shunt resistor..
Since it seems there are only 700mA or 350mA as common currents.. 350mA it is.. ;)
your still getting 1W out of them..
 
It seems your red leds are likely only "1 watt type" rated to 350mA. you could conceivablly wire two strings in parallel off the 700mA driver and probably be ok for a very long time following the guidelines of the earlier "parallel" builds (I have many arrays that have been running this way for several years).

Otherwise your options are buy new red leds rated for 700mA, or get new LDD drivers that output 300-350-mA for the red strings.

Tough break, but that is the risk of we take with ebay, I've been nearly burned a few times (but as my luck would have it realized the deception soon enough to get refunded my money thru ebay and paypal).

In the sellers defense sometimes they are clueless (especially the ones that deal in great volumes) as there is no visual way to tell between a 1watt and a 3watt led and even the re-sellers are subject to getting scammed by the producers overseas, and other times overseas re-sellers just plain Sucks Balls and don't care........

If you opt to buy new Reds, I'd suggest Steves LED for budget 660nm as he carries good quality SemiLED chips as well as the very high quality Luxeon emitters (the latter are little better suited in terms of known wavelength but really algea is not all that picky and for a scrubber I'd probably cheap out)
 
Your getting 36.1 v since the led has failed open and the driver is trying to force current thru an open connection (i.e. no current is flowing so it maxes out the voltage to try and over come the Vf of the load) sometimes this results in the whole string "blinking" or being periodically very dim and then going out. but it indicates a failed open (or nearly failed open LED) I've fixed a great many of such failures on PAR type screw base bulbs over the years.......
 
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I'd be pessimistically concerned that with what you've seen thus far your blues might only be 1 watt as well since you are seeing near PSU output on the LED string, it is likely that they are not running over a few hundred mA and if you powered only one from the LDD it may well burn out just as fast as the reds.

I really hate to post the negative thoughts but worth pointing out.........

Good luck, as frustrating as it can be I've been there, done that, and find a nice cold :beer: helps my mood!
 
I'd be pessimistically concerned that with what you've seen thus far your blues might only be 1 watt as well since you are seeing near PSU output on the LED string, it is likely that they are not running over a few hundred mA and if you powered only one from the LDD it may well burn out just as fast as the reds.

I really hate to post the negative thoughts but worth pointing out.........

Good luck, as frustrating as it can be I've been there, done that, and find a nice cold :beer: helps my mood!
There are listed "3W" reds at 350mA..Which as we know is an impossibility..

As to the blues.. 10 in series, 3.2-3.6V.. 700mA..
The V(f)'s seem ok..Pretty sure they'd have popped if they were 350's...

Usually max v(F) is max current..
 
There are listed "3W" reds at 350mA..Which as we know is an impossibility..

As to the blues.. 10 in series, 3.2-3.6V.. 700mA..
The V(f)'s seem ok..Pretty sure they'd have popped if they were 350's...

Usually max v(F) is max current..

well, a true 3 watt red that ran max 350mA does exist but they are typically multiple dies in series, i.e. a two to four cores that runs 5-9volts........volts times amps equals watts.....though typically LEDs are lumped into categories by "watt" witch is seldom an accurate description for long term operating conditions, and equally seldom even true of many of thier maximum rated parameters.....i.e. a red that maxes at 3.5 volts at 750mA is still only 2.625 watts..........and I've never seen a red single die LED that ran at 4volts which is what would be needed to actually be a "3 watt LED"

......anyhow as far as your second statement about the blues, re-check that! Forward Voltage and Current handling are not at all related. Luxeon and Cree can run 1000mA at ~3volts or less with the good bins, and likewise tiny LEds like those used as indicator lights in consumer electronics might only handle 20mA at 3.6 or even up to 4 volts.....so I don't see your correlation between vF and Current.

My statement about the blues was that it is very, VERY, rare to get a whole string of "watt Plus Class" LEDs with voltage bins averaging much over 3.5 volts (could happen, but not all that likely, I have yet to get a single blue or white that ran over 3.8 even when pushed upwards of 1000mA on a "3 watt" chip).

So, given 10 in series and 36.1 volts input from PSU he should not see an output voltage over around 33.1 give or take a few percent, according to the LDD data sheets, which state they drop around 3 volts when working properly.

That is why I think he either needs to drop one blue per string or he might actually have 350mA max blues.

Better to test it with only one blue on a driver first. the vF can limit current if it exceeds what the psu can supply. LEDs can run all day long off a constant voltage supply if the supply can't output enough voltage to over come the combined vF and exceed thier maximum current rating. example, you can run a bridgelux vero 10 off a 24 volt source (battery, wall wart, whatever) and it will only pull an absolute max current of around 200mA never getting close to exceeding is limit or that of the PSU. This is why I think something is not quite right on the blue string.

Either too many LEDs and they are all very high vF (maybe.....hopefully) or they are actually only "1watt" in which case as with all LEDs the closer to max current the run the higher the vF of each LED. Especially true of the VERY old stock often available on ebay.........again I've never personally been able to get one to read 4 volts before it fried.......but I only have a few hundred that I have measured under extremes over the years, so not a very large test group in the grand scheme of things......

Either way a little more testing is in order for the OP to make sure things are going to keep running long term and not lead to a headache later after it's all up and running. Nothing worse than getting it all set up and buried in the guts of your setup only to have to dig it all back out after a month and figure out what failed........

Just my two cents from experience, observation, and countless hundreds of dollars in dead and toasted LEDs, Drivers, PSUs, etc, that I chalk up to my learning curve on the technology over the years.
 
Nothing worse than getting it all set up and buried in the guts of your setup only to have to dig it all back out after a month and figure out what failed........

.

That's for sure.

I'll do a single blue LED test and see where we are.

Thanks for all the help-you guys are the best!
 
LDD should regulate the voltage for you, .

I tried a single blue LED on each side of the scrubber and they toggled on and off for 10-15 minutes. (I have the sketch set to switch sides at 1 minute for bench testing) So good news there.

I contacted the eBay seller and to my surprise, he responded even though I made the purchase way back in Nov. We've emailed back and forth a couple times-he seems like a standup guy. Here is his latest response;

"You said ten red in series , so each red led voltage is 3.6V . but red led voltage is about 2.5-2.8V . the highest is 3V . So 3.6V for red led is too high . the red leds will be burned out !
But blue led's voltage is 3.4-3.8V , 3.6V is ok !"

He seems to imply that I should have 13-14 red LEDs on a string. He knows I am using LDD700H drivers, but maybe is not familiar with them.

I couldn't find anything to show him on the LDD700H datasheet indicating that LDD will regulate voltage to the number of LEDs.

No matter how things shake out with the eBay seller, this scrubber will get done.
 
I tried a single blue LED on each side of the scrubber and they toggled on and off for 10-15 minutes. (I have the sketch set to switch sides at 1 minute for bench testing) So good news there.

I contacted the eBay seller and to my surprise, he responded even though I made the purchase way back in Nov. We've emailed back and forth a couple times-he seems like a standup guy. Here is his latest response;

"You said ten red in series , so each red led voltage is 3.6V . but red led voltage is about 2.5-2.8V . the highest is 3V . So 3.6V for red led is too high . the red leds will be burned out !
But blue led's voltage is 3.4-3.8V , 3.6V is ok !"

He seems to imply that I should have 13-14 red LEDs on a string. He knows I am using LDD700H drivers, but maybe is not familiar with them.

I couldn't find anything to show him on the LDD700H datasheet indicating that LDD will regulate voltage to the number of LEDs.

No matter how things shake out with the eBay seller, this scrubber will get done.

They are stuck in the constant voltage realm.. doesn't apply to your drivers AT ALL...

They may be nice but they are wrong.. period.

The LED's could be one volt.. The LDD will only supply enough voltage for the LED to draw 700mA..

Prove it to yourself w/ a 300mA Ldd-H.. The diodes will be fine (fingers crossed). and bright..
 
The LDD will only supply enough voltage for the LED to draw 700mA.
..

I hope you don't mind...I lifted this line as part of my response. :bigeyes:
He asked me to test a single red. I plan to dim it way down and monitor the voltage to see where it fails.
Still going back and forth-my impression is once the eBay seller is convinced he sent the wrong thing, he'll take care of it.

Thanks.
 
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