batch 1: FAIL - what went wrong?

_shorty_

_shorty_

New member
how many posts like this have you responded to?... lol.

Noob here - I tried to raise my first batch of ocellaris that hatched Sunday night (11pm-ish). The first day (yesterday) - everything seemed great. I fed rots and small amount of live phyto (enough to tint the water light green) @ 7AM, 12:30ish, and then 7ish PM. Had lights on from midnight Sunday night (hatch time) through about 10PM last night was the first lights out (almost 24 hours lights on). I had only one casualty (out of maybe 50) prior to lights out last night.

This morning, lights came on at 7AM - ALL but 3 of the 50ish larvae were dead. :sad2:

Set-up: a 5 gal tank inside a 20 long. Oversized heater and small powerhead in the 20L which keeps the fry tank at a solid 83 degrees. Airpump and stone into the fry tank, valved back. I have probably about 3gal of 'broodstock' (DT/reef) water in the 5 gal. My readings in my DT are NO3 - 0.75, PO4 -0.08, Ca - 420, Alk - 7.5, Mag - 1360.

I have NH3 badge that reads 0 NH3 in the fry tank - also tested this morning with 0 readable NH3 with an old API kit. Thier bellies were fat last night. This morning - those that are alive have no bellies. I THINK they simply starved... but would really appreciate those of you with experience to chime in and give your opinions on what to do differently.

*What are your feeding and light schedules through meta?
*Did I try lights out too early?
*Should I feed an extra feeding in the middle of the night?
*How much % harvest of a 5 gal bucket of rot culture is typically sieved and fed per 'serving'? (I know different batches will require different amounts - but say for a batch of 50 - how much would you use?)
*some other factor I have not really considered?

An additional question: I have a lot of 'dust' accumulating on the bottom of the fry tank already. I wouldn't think these little guys wouldn't produce that much waste. So maybe I am feeding too many rots? Should I assume most of that 'dust' settling is over-fed rots? If so, why wouldn't they stay in the water column and be eaten? I do not have any heaters in the rot cultures - so they probably run about 69-70 degrees.

I GREATLY appreciate any help and feedback. Hoping to have a revisde plan before I try again in a week.

Here's a video I tool last night of all the little guys swimming around. The white balance of the video makes things look more green than they look in person.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/d02Kfnwj6aw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Keep in mind I am going through my first time raising too so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I understand you need to count your rots.

Each larvae needs 1000 rots per day to survive, so you need to know your density to feed appropriately. I picked up a cheap hobby loupe set at harbor freight for $4, pull out 1ml in syringe and put it in a vial then count as fast as u can lol.

Unless your culture is really dense I would imagine you need at least 2 5 gallon buckets going.

You also need to make sure you have a density of 15 rots per ml in the fry tank so they can find the food.

Sorry to hear about this, keep posting so we can learn from eachother lol
 
How long do you keep lights on at first? I just read this morning, that it may be best to leave them on the first 4 days or so for larvae to see the food and become good at feeding. Maybe my issue was that simple... I can only hope, for next time.

I went home at lunch to feed, and it looks like there is bunch of rots (dust looking stuff suspended) in the water. Water is also becoming less green meaning I think the phyto is being consumed.

I do have two phyto buckets going. Been pulling 15%ish of a bucket out of a bucket per feeding. But, thank you. You are probably right. To do this right, I probably need to know my densities. I'll look into that before next go-round. I will need to be able to systematically rule out different variables, and this is one I should be able to do fairly easily.

I've assumed the 'co-culture' method would be easiest - which is why I wanted to use live phyto (at least in the larval tank).

hmm... Is it possible to provide too many rots that will consume too much oxygen out of the water?

I tend to over-think things... so bare with me. But all input is welcome.
 
1 thing i noticed is you don't have much air in the tank, I usually have a 15" bubble wand and a regular air stone going at the same time. perhaps you have to little o2 as the rots will also use up alot.

as for counting rots, I have never counted mine. I have 2 5 gal bucktes going at once and I will harvest about 1/3 of a bucket, strain through my seive and dump into the fry tank, there will be enough rots to see a good density in the fry tank with the naked eye
 
I keep light on for the first 3 days. I have 3 5gal buckets of rots going. I use a glass measuring cup to take rots out. You don't need to count, you should have high density that you can see in the cup. I strain 6 cups and feed them twice a day. keep good air supply going. don't water change for first 3-4 days. I don't heat the rots bucket. I use to worry about counting and salinity of the rots and all that stuff. not anymore. I use a cap full of Amiquil (sp) every day or so. you could use that in your fry tank too after 3-4 days.
 
What about the bubble wand, do you keep it next to the heater to keep the fry away? Do you guys have any pics of larvae tank set up?
 
Yes, my bubble wand is under the heater to keep fry away but also adds oxygen. I dont have pics here but can post my breeding thread later when i get home
 
Thanks guys!! All very good info.

My larvae tank is a 5 gal inside a 20long. The heater is in the outside tank - so they cannot be cooked. I learned that little trick from Ross and the guys building that huge lab setup thread currently going right now in this forum.

So, far, I plan to add an additional rot bucket (up to 3), keep lighting on for the first 3-4 days, and increase the air next time. Also, maybe do some rot density counting, until I am confident in my feeding technique/amounts.

I use a cap full of Amiquil (sp) every day or so. you could use that in your fry tank too after 3-4 days.
Click to expand...
NH Fish,
Amiquil - In the fry tank you mean, after 3-4 days? not the rot buckets, right?
 
How are you enriching your rots? What type(s) of phyto are you using? Have you considered using RGComplete instead of growing your own phyto? The reason I ask is because I think it's great option for newbies (I consider myself a newbie). Since it contains the right balance of phyto that's already enriched, we don't need to worry about the nutrition part. And since it has a buffer and an ammonia remover, we don't need to worry about that part either. Granted, it's more expensive than other methods, but at least it removes a lot of the potential issues that you may encounter, and will let you concentrate on raising the fry. I'm using it 100% of the time and have had good results. I told myself that once I get better at raising the babies, I'd start to grow my own phyto. But the reality for me is that I barely have enough time to vacuum the fry tanks, maintain the rotifer cultures (these really do need to be harvested daily to maintain a health culture), and tend to my DT.
 
Thanks for the link and additional info guys! I do appreciate all input greatly! Shifty, I'll read up on your post and gleem whatever I can from it :)

I have not been enriching. I do have some selco ordered for enrichment, but didn't plan to enrich the rots, but only the bbs. How do you enrich those tiny rotifer 'dust' particles? Would that affect thier reproduction in the fry tank?

I have used nano phyto paste mainly so far for the rot cultures themselves to keep them up (which seem to be producing/maintaining in my limited experience what look like decent densities). I also dump in some live TET every once in a while. I've used live phyto only in the fry tank. I've had problems getting my live Nano culture going - but it's finally taking off, and I will be splitting to my max number of production vessels in a day or two. My TET culture has been at full production for a week. I have put enough work into live phyto that I'd like to at least try it for a few clutches before I jump ship and go to an expensive product.

For what it's worth (which conflicts me with much of what I've read about keeping rot cultures) is that I know a group that uses nano phyto paste only, does not enrich anything, does relatively small amount of maintenance (compared to much of the info out there about keeping rots) - yet they have 95% success rates in raising ocellaris clutches from multiple parents.

So, it might help me if you explain (or provide a link if you have one handy) in what you mean about what a 'healthy rot culture' is? Do you mean maximized production?, thier nutritional content?, something else, or all of the above?

BTW - despite all i stated, I am definitely heeding your advice. If I continue to struggle, I will then look at food sources as my potential issue, for sure.
 
Last edited:
LOL - so you just drop in some enrichment into your rot buckets? I looked that up after I posted and realize my question probably sounded pretty dumb.

Previously - I thought of 'enrichment' as something you soak or spray onto the food...

Selco is good for this purpose?
 
_shorty_ said:
Thanks guys!! All very good info.

My larvae tank is a 5 gal inside a 20long. The heater is in the outside tank - so they cannot be cooked. I learned that little trick from Ross and the guys building that huge lab setup thread currently going right now in this forum.

So, far, I plan to add an additional rot bucket (up to 3), keep lighting on for the first 3-4 days, and increase the air next time. Also, maybe do some rot density counting, until I am confident in my feeding technique/amounts.


NH Fish,
Amiquil - In the fry tank you mean, after 3-4 days? not the rot buckets, right?
Click to expand...

I use it in fry tank and rotifer buckets. Fry tank after 3-4 days. buckets whenever it needs it.
 
This is a pic of my rots density
truck001_zps56e40dd2.jpg
 
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