BB issues...thinking of going back to sand.

[drock59]

I am having problems with my BB tank and I cant figure out what is going wrong. About two months ago, all my corals started lightening up and several died. Ive lost A. Tenius (sp), bonsai and a green cap. Nothing has changed.

Calcium-420-440
Alk-10.2
Ph. 7.98-8.09
Mag. 1400
Nit-0
PO4-?


Question 1: Do barebottom tanks need less light/ is my light too much for my tank? I have dual Bluewave HQI 250w, Reef Optix III reflectors about six inches off the water on my standard 75g. My photoperiod is about 5 hours with BLV 20k bulbs.

Question 2: Is my system too sterile? Ive been feedin what I consider heavy for the last month and have seen nothing positive for the corals, only more algea. When I make water changes, the water coming out is clearer than the water I put back in.


With all this frustration, I am considering going back to a sand bed that I ran successfully before BB. Any insight that will help correct my problem is appreciated.

 

[samsfishnchips]

lighting of the corals is usually with very low nutrients

have you check for parasites?

what fish you keep?

flow?

sam

 

[MiddletonMark]

Re: BB issues...thinking of going back to sand.

How long have you been BB?
How long has the system been running before that?

I assume you've got lots of flow?

What kind of skimmer are you running, what kind of skimmate, how much per week?

What bioload?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7016195#post7016195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drock59
Calcium-420-440
Alk-10.2
Ph. 7.98-8.09
Mag. 1400
Nit-0
PO4-?

pH seems strangely low IMO for having elevated Alk.

Personally, I would drop Alkalinity to close to NSW until things stabilize. While I can understand running Alk at other levels when everything is good ... when problem occur I'd drop it back to NSW levels.

Is pH low due to Ca reactor running?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7016195#post7016195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drock59 Question 2: Is my system too sterile? Ive been feedin what I consider heavy for the last month and have seen nothing positive for the corals, only more algea. When I make water changes, the water coming out is clearer than the water I put back in. [/B]

The water you pull for a water change is clearer than what you're adding?
Is the water you're adding not clear? I'm confused there.

Have you tested the water you're w/c-ing with?

What are you feeding? What quantity/how often?

Yeah, I know, a million questions. But it's probably cheaper than flying a dozen of us out to check things out in person

 

[drock59]

Seems the lightening is only for a few corals. My caps in particular and one or two acros. Everything else is fine but with little growth.

Just recently, I stopped running carbon but there doesnt seem to be a change either way after this.

have you check for parasites?

Ive looked and looked and looked and had others look and I cant find anything.

what fish you keep?

Naso Tang( 2inch)
Coral Beauty
4 Green chromis
2 dispar anthias
Tomato Clown
Cleaner Shrimp
Coral Banded Shrimp

Added the anthias and clown to try and get more nutrients into the system. Feeding a lot more heavy but still no improvement.

flow?

Ive got a mag 9.5 for return and a Dart on a closed loop.



i didnt think it was possible, but I honestly think it is my lights. My water is so clear that I think the light penetrates the water a lot more than folks with a sand bed and some other BB users.

 

[drock59]

I appreciate the questions, as I am at the end of my knowledge.

How long have you been BB?

Its been almost two years now and I was running a DSB on a different tank for about 4 years before that. Im not a novice at this stuff, but I honestly have no idea why this is happening.

What kind of skimmer are you running, what kind of skimmate, how much per week?

Just changed out my ER 8-1 for a pacific coast imports RPS 2000 about one month ago.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7015637#post7015637

http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/searchhomekeyresult5.asp

Its pulling about 1/4 of a gallon per week. Not much skimming, but it is working well for a lot of other people. This makes me think there is not much to skim.

pH seems strangely low IMO for having elevated Alk.Personally, I would drop Alkalinity to close to NSW until things stabilize. While I can understand running Alk at other levels when everything is good ... when problem occur I'd drop it back to NSW levels.

Is pH low due to Ca reactor running?

Im working on dropping the alk to NSW. Going it slow and yes pH is low due to reactor.

The water you pull for a water change is clearer than what you're adding?

I should have stated this better. The water looks exactly like the same as the water I am adding. Most people I know have a slight tint in the water they are changing. DSBers seem to have a heavy green tint. Does that make sense?

Have you tested the water you're w/c-ing with?

Yep, all the levels fall into normal range. Hmm, just thought of something. I heard a while back about certain mixing containers having some sort or chemical in them that was bad for tanks. Any thoughts on that? I think I am using a "roughkneck" garbage can.

What are you feeding? What quantity/how often?

Im feeding a lot of different stuff. I switch off between cyclopeeze and rotifier every other night...one cube.

2 cubes of mysis or brine daily, with the occasional blood worm cube

I feed several different kind of flake/pellet daily.

1. Prime Reef
2. Formula 2
3. Cyclopeeze
4. occasional tubifex worms
5. Marine Lab Bio-Blend
6. Nori

 

[izzypop]

hey drock59 remember when you bought those lights from me and I was having the same problems you discribe with BB. Well those problems never went away and I just put sand in the tank 2 weeks ago as a last resort and so far I am seeing major improvement but can't say just yet if it solved the problem. I really don't think we have fully discovered why some systems that are BB do this. I have started a log with pics about a week ago and if it works out for me I'll post here with my results.

 

[MiddletonMark]

How old are the bulbs?

Considered running bulbs without a gigantic blue-spike?

 

[drock59]

Considered running bulbs without a gigantic blue-spike?

I detect a small degree of condesention. The bulbs actually are not very blue looking. Look more like a 14k.

Bulbs are less than six months old. I just switched two weeks ago from phoenix 14k. Thinks seemed to be coloring up but have leveled off.

Sean, send me a link to the log. Im interested. I think i am going to add a 1" layer of sand.

 

[MiddletonMark]

No condescension.

I'm trying out a Radium, so I can't talk
But ... while I've also seen positive effects on coloration with addition of 20k, it was less than I expected, and some things IMO lost color. Maybe this is due to lower overall intensity - but it's got me thinking about how many blue-end bulbs have huge spikes in certain wavelengths, seem low in others.
All opinion, but IMO a few corals I have seem to do worse overall under the radium vs. 10k ... so it's not total amount of intensity [more under 10k] - and has me wondering if some bulbs/corals might not work well together.

Just throwing out ideas, but wondered about your history with these exact bulbs. I've never used them - but am good at making it sound like I know something by asking lots of questions, then confusing people with idiosyncratic opinions :lmao:

 

[jiggy]

i dont understand what making your tank dirtier will do. most of us try to get everything as clean as possible.. i think ur just making changes too drastically.. sps dont like change..

 

[drock59]

i dont understand what making your tank dirtier will do. most of us try to get everything as clean as possible.. i think ur just making changes too drastically.. sps dont like change..

I think you dont have a super clean tank like i do and have no idea what negative effects a sterile tank can have.

As far as the bulbs go, this is the first time I have used them and they look great. Thats all I know.

 

[MiddletonMark]

Just figured I'd throw it out there. You would be the best judge of bulb-change-differences IMO.
Do you take regular photos of the whole tank? Perhaps page through them - see if you notice any changes in relation to other changes you did [whether bulbs, flow, etc].

IMO, you are feeding quite a bit of food for a 75g tank. I'd expect to get more skimmate out of it, figuring BB, fair bit of feeding, and IMO not a huge amount of skimmate.
Could be the right amount, too ... tanks vary.

To answer your main question, while perhaps sand is something that could help you balance things out, get the tank thriving again ... it's hard to know that it would `for sure' solve your recent issues. It's not a bad option, though ... just not what I'd try first.

 

[drock59]

it wouldnt be my first try either!!!!


All of my photos look the same over the past several months. Little growth and difference in coral coloration....thats it.

Skimmate is about the same with this skimmer as the ER 8-1. I dont think its the skimmer. If the ER was not performing, then nothing would IMO.

Keep in mind I have just recently added more food. My skimmate has gotten a lot stinkier and increased a little since then.

Any other suggestions welcome.

 

[falcon41176]

i like sand but i hate to see and particles flying around the tank. my sand bed is 4 inches to five inches deep and i like to stir the top layer once a week to get the poop flowing around. then i find the sps feeder strands flying out of them. i had the same problem your having while back. my skinmate was clear enough to drink.

 

[drock59]

and....

 

[RCS]

Couple of oddball things to look into possibly: excess CO2 and oxygen levels. If nothing in the "normal" battery of tests indicates a problem, then it's time to consider the outside shots.

 

[drock59]

Please elaborate....

I have run the airline to the skimmer outside for 48 hours recently and absolutely no change in pH. If that is what you were talking about I dont think that is it.

excess O2...I didnt know that was possible.

 

[panic]

it seems that most who run BB boast that the water is so clean, light penetration is much better. Did you raise your lights when you went BB? (I run a SB) I had to raise my lights 2" by merely adding phosban, and the color saturation has improved on the bottom (21") on a bonsaii. I also have a 75 and have my lights 8" off the water - one 250hqi 10k and 2 400se 12k. I am moving into a 180 BB in a couple of weeks and will raise my lighting to 12". good luck!

 

[panic]

oh, are you running ozone and UV?

 

[marine_freak]

So I am unclear what is everybodies consensus....run bare bottom or run with sand........ if you have a sand bottom refugium can you get the same reults without putting the sand in your main display??? I ask because this is how my system is set up bare bottom but large reef mud refuge...approx 50 gallon.