Bean Animal??

wakerider017

wakerider017

Member
What is the reason for gate valves on all three pipes? Shouldn't you need just one on the main drain?

Any tips or tricks I should know about? That are not discussed in the article?

Wondering if I should use 2" or 1.5" bulkheads + pipe.

Planning on going with the cali style overflow.
 
The only valve that's necessary is the one on the siphon channel. The other two are installed for shutting off all flow for maintenance. Not necessary at all and would be wide open when running the system.

The purpose for the larger open channel is to allow the water to flow down the sides of the pipe instead of "falling" down the center causing bubbles and noise. A 1" pipe drastically cuts the amount of water that can flow in this manner. The bulkhead won't limit this so the only reason to increase the size of your bulkheads is if you plan on running more GPH through the tank than the original design can handle.
 
Thanks Jer.

I think I'll go with the 1.5" bulkheads. Can't hurt.



Another question I have is about the type of overflow box.

Bean has his tank drilled on the back with cali overflow.

Will the bean also work well with a more traditional internal overflow where the pipes come up from the bottom?




Last question: Is it important where the gate valve goes in the pipe on the main drain? I'll have it draining to the basement so there will be a lot of pipe...



Thanks!
 
In your situation the siphon channel will be most consistent with the valve as close to the sump as possible. On must under tank sumps the drop after the valve is short enough not to cause any problems. With a basement sump you have a lot more pipe as you said and it can increase noise and bubbles if the valve is upstairs. Also with a basement sump you need to make sure your siphon channel is barely submerged. I mean less than an inch and in some cases even less. If you have starting problems with the siphon this will be the first place to look. My pipe needs to be less than 1/2" submerged or it gives me trouble.

The system will work with any overflow box. The purpose behind the Calfo style box is to maximize surface skimming although it is a function more of the flat weir and the total length of the weir than the placement of the box.

1.5" bulkheads won't hurt anything at all.
 
Good info!!

I'm considering going with the traditional 'holes drilled in the bottom of the tank and internal box overflow'. I feel this will allow me to easily adjust the height of the drains. (Just cut the pipe to length, and if the height is wrong, cut a new pipe. Not sure how important drain height will be? Obviously you don't want the pipe too low causing a waterfall effect in the overflow box, but you also don't want it too high where there is 0 cascading water??

I'd like to install a very very big internal box overflow if possible. One that has lots of teeth and will not restrict water flow at all. I wonder if I can find a custom one somewhere? (Right now I have a marineland cornerflow and it barely flows enough to keep up with my drain.. I had to drill holes to allow more water in..) I'm thinking I would want an internal overflow box that is like 3' wide...


It shouldn't be a problem keeping it 1/2" or less below the water line in the basement. (I'm going to have all the water from the DT dump into a 20G tank that will be drilled with (2) 2" bulkheads that in turn will be piped to gravity spill in to a 150G sump just a few feet below. (I hope this make sense). I am doing this because I don't want the main drain system to be directly tied to the 150G sump. My filter sock water level rises as they become clogged and this effects the drain rates. Separating the systems will remove this effect I believe.


I feel like I just did a bit of rambling, but hopefully some of that makes sense.


I see you have a basement sump too. How is that working out for you?
 
wakerider017 said:
Good info!!

I'm considering going with the traditional 'holes drilled in the bottom of the tank and internal box overflow'. I feel this will allow me to easily adjust the height of the drains. (Just cut the pipe to length, and if the height is wrong, cut a new pipe. Not sure how important drain height will be? Obviously you don't want the pipe too low causing a waterfall effect in the overflow box, but you also don't want it too high where there is 0 cascading water??
Click to expand...

The water height in the overflow will be set by the valve on the siphon drain, although it can never be higher than the entrance to the emergency drain. The shorter the drop the less noise you will get from cascading water. If there is no drop then there is also no functional overflow.

I'd like to install a very very big internal box overflow if possible. One that has lots of teeth and will not restrict water flow at all. I wonder if I can find a custom one somewhere? (Right now I have a marineland cornerflow and it barely flows enough to keep up with my drain.. I had to drill holes to allow more water in..) I'm thinking I would want an internal overflow box that is like 3' wide...
Click to expand...

I prefer a toothless weir. If set up properly it will flow more water quietly than a toothed overflow box. It will also greatly increase the surface skimming. Remember the compounds we want to remove through protein skimming are hydrophobic and will be present in the a layer on top of the water.

I see you have a basement sump too. How is that working out for you?
Click to expand...

I love it. A basement sump makes just about every aspect of keeping a large tank easier IMO.
 
jerpa said:
The water height in the overflow will be set by the valve on the siphon drain, although it can never be higher than the entrance to the emergency drain. The shorter the drop the less noise you will get from cascading water. If there is no drop then there is also no functional overflow.
Click to expand...

Yup, I guess The ideal drop is somewhere less than 1" but greater than 1/4" . experimentation will aide in what works best.



I prefer a toothless weir. If set up properly it will flow more water quietly than a toothed overflow box. It will also greatly increase the surface skimming. Remember the compounds we want to remove through protein skimming are hydrophobic and will be present in the a layer on top of the water.
Click to expand...

A toothless weir huh? Is that a problem with fish, snails etc?
 
Yes I had to put a plastic gutter gaurd over it.
I lost a blue throat trigger, he was stuck in the t pipe.
However, if you have a glass top most larger fish shouldn't fit between the glass and the top of the weir.
 
Snails get in and crawl back out. Fish can be a problem but they don't float into the overflow. There is only a thin(<1/4") layer of water flowing over, assuming you don't have a very small weir with very high flow. I don't know that any uncovered overflow wont allow the occasional fish to hop in. I would advise using some sort of screening to prevent them from getting sucked down the siphon tube or cover the overflow. Gutter guard will work as mentioned above. I've also seen people cut a piece of glass with a few 1/4" spacers so it doesn't interfere with the skimming.

A flat weir isn't integral to the operation of the system, unless the teeth create too much noise to call it silent.
 
I have 1" drains on mine, which is also a bottom drilled tank. I used elbows instead of T's to keep them out of sight while still having a water level high enough not to make noise when water fell into the overflow.

I had 1.5" drains on my 210, with a reeflo dart and still had to close the valve on the siphon over halfway. If it were me, I wouldn't go with anything bigger than 1" bulkheads. Easier to drill too. If you want to step the pipe up after the drain on the open channel like bean did, that makes sense, but I don't think the 1.5" bulkhead is necessary. I actually think it will contribute nothing unless you're piping tons of water through there.

And I also only have a gate valve on my siphon channel.
 
Good point. I should have mentioned that due to the vertical drop with a basement sump you may want to downsize the siphon channel to 1". Mine is 1" and running about 700gph upstairs requires the drain being closed more than 75%. The open channel being larger allows more capacity before the drain gets noisy.

There is a calculator on Bean's page to calculate the maximum flow for the siphon channel. I think with a 10' drop and 1" pipe it was absurd. Well north of 3000gph if I recall correctly.
 
rrasco said:
I have 1" drains on mine, which is also a bottom drilled tank. I used elbows instead of T's to keep them out of sight while still having a water level high enough not to make noise when water fell into the overflow.

I had 1.5" drains on my 210, with a reeflo dart and still had to close the valve on the siphon over halfway. If it were me, I wouldn't go with anything bigger than 1" bulkheads. Easier to drill too. If you want to step the pipe up after the drain on the open channel like bean did, that makes sense, but I don't think the 1.5" bulkhead is necessary. I actually think it will contribute nothing unless you're piping tons of water through there.

And I also only have a gate valve on my siphon channel.
Click to expand...

Ehhh. 1.5" bulkhead holes will be just as easy to drill as 1" bulkhead holes.. Drill, plywood guide, water and patience. (But in reality, I'd have them drilled when I ordered the tank. Also going with sch 80 bulkheads this time so that means bigger holes than sch 40.)

I agree I'll have to close the gate valve a considerable amount. Doesn't really matter to me? I could always have a reducer from 1.5" > 1" pipe if I really wanted.

Point is, It will be hard to go to 1.5" in the future if I ever wanted to for any reason if I don't do it now... (Maybe I'll want sump on same floor in the future for whatever reason). Can't see a negative? Maybe I'm wrong?
 
Furthermore,

What is the point of the elaborate sanitary tee fitting and all the other fittings stuck to it?

To allow cleaning with a pipe brush? But why wouldn't you just use a bullet and a cap?? What else is going on here?

standpipe-close.jpg
 
The sanitary tee is to help reduce turbulence. I used regular tees on mine but that's due to using 1" pipe. The airline out the top of one of them is a failsafe so the open channel becomes a siphon if the water level rises due to a clog in the siphon channel and doesn't become a siphon during regular operation
 
jerpa said:
The sanitary tee is to help reduce turbulence. I used regular tees on mine but that's due to using 1" pipe. The airline out the top of one of them is a failsafe so the open channel becomes a siphon if the water level rises due to a clog in the siphon channel and doesn't become a siphon during regular operation
Click to expand...

Jer, I understand the above principles you stated above.

I might of wrote my question in a confusing way, but I was talking about what was going on above the tee.

I found an exploded view and I think I have a better idea of what is going on.

It looks like it is just being used as a cleanout.

I'm guessing the bullet used in the picture can be shortened to the point at which it will not add length to the fittings. (I think it is shown as being long just to show it is there).


exploded-standpipe.jpg



Finally, from what I understand the open channel and full siphon are placed at the same height?
 
The 1.5" pipe just takes longer to drill, that's all. I put 3 of them in my 210, took freaking forever.

The screw caps are for maintenance. I don't have them mine, I just used a regular elbow at the top of the stand pipe. Tank is bottom drilled so I can just pull out the stand pipe to clean the whole thing. You will ust have to put in the airline valve on the top of the elbow or somewhere that works for your system.

In regard to the full siphon and the open channel being the same height, while that works, I found an issue with it. This was with my 1.5" system, both channels were even, but the siphon was strong enough that it would create a small whirlpool and suck in air causing it to slurp or burp occasionally. When I installed my new system I made the open channel a little higher, that way there is more distance between the siphon and the surface of the water in the overflow preventing it from sucking in air as my previous system did. That might have been mostly attributed to the amount of water flow I had running through there with a huge pump, but something to consider.

IMG_1159.JPG

IMG_0620.JPG
 
Thank you for the info!

Ya, that funnel of water is called a vortex. Possibly a disc around the full siphon inlet would prevent that. (Maybe cut acrylic)?

Also what about lowering both the open channel and full siphon? Just some thoughts.
 
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