Best flow options for large tanks?

[Somrschool]

We're planning a 300g (possibly marineland DD or custom) and are thinking about flow in the tank. Assuming some kind of C2C overflows (internal or external), what do you big tank guys use for interior flow?

I've looked at Vortechs, Tunzes, and we've done closed loops in the past on our 175 bowfront. Here are some pics:
This is the tank with cl doing our first lead test:

And here, up and stocked:

My two top criteria are 1) a clean, most-natural-possible look to the reef and 2) as quiet as possible (like, silent is best).

Pros/Cons:

1) We will have the tank out in our LR and have very little space behind the tank for extras. We'd like to avoid a chiller, therefore, so fewer pumps (like Tunzes) IN the tank the better, but I hear that Vortechs make noise? Concur or no? If Vortechs or Tunzes, how many do I need for a 72" X 36" X 27" tank?

2) If you have done closed loops on a big tank, got any pics or sketches that show how you plumbed it? For our 175 above, we did an hob cl, and hid the pipes with egg crate. It worked out OK, but as coraline algae filled in, I came to not like the look so well. Anyone ever used a piece of black glass or acrylic to hid loops? Or just drilled? I like closed loops 'cause they are practically invisible, have easily adjustable directional flow, are cheap (especially considering we have our Dart still) and run silent. BUT, we've never drilled for a cl, and have NO idea where to start. So, pics or diagrams of your cl for a big tank would be a great boon.

TIA and happy holidays!

 

[Znut Reefer]

I would go with the Tunze streams for flow. Back when I had a 225 I had 4 on it. Good Luck with the new tank.

 

[Reefer Brian]

Second the TUNZES.......

 

[Somrschool]

Thanks for the replies.

Do Tunzes not add heat to the water, or is it just negligable?

 

[46bfinGA]

I have never noticed that my Tunze are hot. Being they are in the water.

 

[Jar*Head]

All pumps and powerhead add heat into the water. The question is "how much heat?"

 

[Somrschool]

Yeah, but the Vor Tech motors are outside the tank. I have heard they are less than silent though. Anyone heard one in motion before?

 

[mflamb]

I'm setting up a Marineland 300 and using four of the new Tunze 6105s with Aquasurf.

 

[Somrschool]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14024225#post14024225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jar*Head
All pumps and powerhead add heat into the water. The question is "how much heat?"

Right! That's my concern about Tunzes in the water. So... how many Tunze users have chillers? :rollface: 'Fess up, now!

 

[FishTruck]

How much heat gets into the tank from a submersed pump?

Exactly the same as a heater of the same wattage. Assuming that the Tunze is running 100% all the time. This is heat from the motor's inefficiency plus the heat lost from the accelerated water molecules slowing down in your tank (losing heat).

One or two Tunze 6300s on an aquasurf is my vote. If you want more flow, add some eductors to your sump outflow and consider a pressure rated pump. The eductors will boost the in tank flow from your sump by about 4 x, but will cost you about four feet of head pressure.

Your aquacontroller can shut down lights and slow down pumps (for safety) if you have no chiller.



Regarding the vortecs... I love them, but, they max out at 3/4 inch thich glass... on low flow settings they are quiet, but, up at 100% they can make some noise.

 

[sfsuphysics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14024836#post14024836 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Somrschool
Yeah, but the Vor Tech motors are outside the tank. I have heard they are less than silent though. Anyone heard one in motion before?

Tunze streams are quieter yes. Howeve I have 3 Vortechs on the backwall of my 36" front to back 180g tank and they're more than excellent for flow.

As for quiet.. well the biggest sounds I've heard out of them is when they rhythmically ramp up and down in the case trying to get a wave going, however I don't use those settings I prefer reef crest or lagoon modes. While Tunzes are quietier I don't think the sound is that much of an issue, there's more sound coming from other aspects of the tank, overflow, return pump, skimmer, etc.

IMO Tunzes or Vortech pumps would be a much better option than a closed loop.

 

[Somrschool]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14026173#post14026173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishTruck
How much heat gets into the tank from a submersed pump?

Exactly the same as a heater of the same wattage. Assuming that the Tunze is running 100% all the time. This is heat from the motor's inefficiency plus the heat lost from the accelerated water molecules slowing down in your tank (losing heat).

One or two Tunze 6300s on an aquasurf is my vote. If you want more flow, add some eductors to your sump outflow and consider a pressure rated pump. The eductors will boost the in tank flow from your sump by about 4 x, but will cost you about four feet of head pressure.

Your aquacontroller can shut down lights and slow down pumps (for safety) if you have no chiller.



Regarding the vortecs... I love them, but, they max out at 3/4 inch thich glass... on low flow settings they are quiet, but, up at 100% they can make some noise.

Helpful.

So, they "max out" at .75" glass... meaning that they CAN (but it's the top of their capacity) or canNOT (meaning they falter or under perform) work at exactly .75"? (I believe Marineland tanks which we are considering are .75" on sides.)

 

[Znut Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14025836#post14025836 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Somrschool
Right! That's my concern about Tunzes in the water. So... how many Tunze users have chillers? :rollface: 'Fess up, now!

I have (8) Tunzes on a 120L x 36W x 30T (500 tank). I also use (5) 400 w MH lights. I do have a chiller, but it hardly runs at all in the winter. I have never used a heater on my tank either. My system is 650 gals total.


What lights are you planning on using? Those alone will heat up your tank. They'll need to be on anywhere from 8 to 12 hours a day.

Thats when my chiller runs more when the lights are all on.

 

[Somrschool]

Right about lights. We think a majority of T-5s with maybe one MH 250 or even 450 as a spot over clams and to add sparkle, probably off center, but maybe in the center (depending on bracing of tank).

In our 175, we avoided a chiller by cooling fans on our sump/frag tank, but back then we had a tank room. So, we're trying to run as many external pumps as possible and will also make sure to ventilate the lights in some fashion (possibly an open look; possibly canopy fans). Tank will be in our LR, which has an upscale, Victorian sort of look, so cabinetry will be important to us, however if we get a halide/T-5 "all in one" fixture that has a sleek, low profile, we might go with an unshielded top just to avoid a chiller.

Meanwhile flow is the main thing we're trying to decide. From all we're seeing, it seems that most big tank guys don't use drilled closed loops, or hob ones. Mostly Tunzes, looks like.

 

[Znut Reefer]

Yes most large tank owners have gotten away from closed loops for flow. I think because of the problems down the road using them. So most have decided the Tunzes were the better route to go.

You'll have to decide on lighting when you get there. Do research on T5's on how much heat they produce. I have no experince there. I've always used MH.

 

[sfsuphysics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14026274#post14026274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Somrschool
Helpful.

So, they "max out" at .75" glass... meaning that they CAN (but it's the top of their capacity) or canNOT (meaning they falter or under perform) work at exactly .75"? (I believe Marineland tanks which we are considering are .75" on sides.)

While I don't have direct experience with this, since my acrylic isn't that thick, the instructions say if your glass/acrylic is 5/8 or 3/4 inch simply do without the spacer, meaning you CAN use them on glass that thick.

If I can make a suggestion, don't use them on the sides of the tank, unless you're going to do an inwall setup the sides are still very viewable as far as your tank goes on a 36" wide tank. What I do is I put my vortechs on the back wall shooting forward, and because my rocks are setup right I make a nice little flow pattern even where there are no vortechs pointed.

 

[cphelps]

I have 2 Vortechs and they are so freaking loud in my living room that i'm constantly remided of their $800 cost

 

[Somrschool]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14029785#post14029785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cphelps
I have 2 Vortechs and they are so freaking loud in my living room that i'm constantly remided of their $800 cost

How disappointing. The makers do have a video that shows that they need to be spang on or they do rattle. I'm assuming you know that.

I had a brainstorm this morning. Forming an internal C2C overflow with returns and closed loop plumbed through and below it (as GlassReef did, only on an internal overflow) and then hidden by a glass panel that is drilled with returns. This way, we'd only have marineland drill three holes (for beananimal-type overflow drains) and then all the rest of the system can be both hob AND drilled (into the panel) which also hides them. Thinking of this as a smoked glass (black) panel. The panel essentially forms a false back and the overflow front.

A further refinement might be to have the panel be a true false back/overflow, with said plumbing inside as above, and then fill it all in with sand to the level that an overflow bottom would be. Then, the chamber acts as a coast2coast overflow, deep sand bed, surface for drilling returns to the tank, and masker for the piping to give it a clean look.

One big pane of glass has GOT to be cheaper than Tunzes, and we have experience (and liked it) with closed loops.

Thoughts?

 

[DmitriyY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14029785#post14029785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cphelps
I have 2 Vortechs and they are so freaking loud in my living room that i'm constantly remided of their $800 cost

+ 1
can’t believe, that piece of high $$$ technology disturb all my family

 

[melev]

And I totally disagree with the noise factor. I've got four of them, and the only one I really hear is the one on my angled tank, which is in the foyer running in Wave mode. Of course there will be sound as it has to ramp up and down. The rest of mine are in Reefcrest mode, and the quiet humming is there, but nothing like the "freaking loud" description. I love them.

I have run Tunze Stream pumps as well, and they worked perfectly. I simply didn't like losing so much real estate to the pumps, and was happy to replace them with VorTech pumps.