Best flow options for large tanks?

[FishTruck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14026274#post14026274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Somrschool
Helpful.

So, they "max out" at .75" glass... meaning that they CAN (but it's the top of their capacity) or canNOT (meaning they falter or under perform) work at exactly .75"? (I believe Marineland tanks which we are considering are .75" on sides.)

Vortechs CAN be used on 3/4 inch. But not thicker than that. (They can't even come close to the 1.25 inch thick acrylic on my tank. Learned the hard way). Word of caution though for 3/4 inch acrylic. There is a single poster out there whos vortechs got hot enough to craze the acrylic on his tank. Probably only a concern if you run them 100%, 24/7, on 3/4 inch acrylic tank.

Regarding the noise, they are audible... not annoying, unless you are trying to sleep, read or study and the vortech is REALLY cranking.

Some guys have made dry boxes to hold the vortechs to get around the 3/4 inch thickness limitation. I can't really see the advantage over tuzes at that point... but... cool idea.

I still think you should go with Tunzes.

 

[Somrschool]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14031006#post14031006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
And I totally disagree with the noise factor. I've got four of them, and the only one I really hear is the one on my angled tank, which is in the foyer running in Wave mode. Of course there will be sound as it has to ramp up and down. The rest of mine are in Reefcrest mode, and the quiet humming is there, but nothing like the "freaking loud" description. I love them.

I have run Tunze Stream pumps as well, and they worked perfectly. I simply didn't like losing so much real estate to the pumps, and was happy to replace them with VorTech pumps.

Melev,

Thanks for taking the time to weigh in. Your website was SO helpful to us when we were just getting started. THANKS for mounting and maintaining it!

Maybe the discrepancy between posters is the models of Vortechs? Are larger pumps noisier, I wonder?

Also, do you think there IS a factor with heat between Tunze and Vortechs, since you've had them both?

TIA!

 

[melev]

The heat factor really can't be compared. Since one is water cooled (Tunze, obviously), we don't know what temperature they could ever reach. We keep them in a body of water ranging from 76F to 83F, right?

The Vortechs don't get much more than warm on my tank. I have a full article about them on my site, so just PM me if you can't find it and need a link. Here's a different review, significantly shorter, with some followup comments:
http://reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=189

There are really only three models out there. MP40, MP40W, and MP20. I had MP40s originally, but upgraded when the offer to do so occurred. That meant I changed out the drivers with the newer wireless ones, and added the newer magnet and end piece/drive shaft.

If they were noisy, I'd state so. I tend to like my system running as quietly as possible. If there is a rattling noise, they aren't aligned properly. If you run them on high, they will get hotter to the touch, but in a way that means people will keep their hands off of 'em. :lol: Don't mess with my pumps!

Also, when I ran my Tunzes, I ran them at 2/3 speed as well. I've never seen the need to run pumps at maximum capacity, and prefer more control. I used the Tunze controller to ramp them up and down, just like I use the controller on the VorTechs pumps to have their speed vary. When I took the Tunzes out, there were still in excellent condition. I cleaned them up and sold them to someone else in the hobby, who presumably still use them today.

 

[Somrschool]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14031556#post14031556 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
The heat factor really can't be compared. Since one is water cooled (Tunze, obviously), we don't know what temperature they could ever reach. We keep them in a body of water ranging from 76F to 83F, right?

Well, when I'm talking about heat, I'm talking about the overall heat of the tank water. I don't want to NEED a chiller, so I was asking if, when you changed from Tunzes to VorTechs you noticed a difference in the overall temps IN the tank. :rollface:

 

[melev]

Oh. No, I don't think so. The heat factor usually is attributed to the lighting and the ambient room temperature. Metal Halides definitely are a heat source. I don't use a chiller, but I do keep the fishroom at the right temperature to keep the tank within target range (79-81F daily). I realize by the time you look at this banner, the temperature will be different, but as of right now the tank is 79.6F

<img src="http://sandbox.interactivereef.com/readings/melev.asp">

The difference for me between the two pumps is less space taken up in the tank and wider flow (both going out as well as ebbing back to the pump itself).

What are your summers like in Maryland? Toasty? Is this a livingroom tank, or a basement tank?

 

[Somrschool]

Summers are hot and humid, and AC expensive. It'll be in our LR. In our old system, we had the sump, frag tank, and refugium (half the whole 300+g system) in a fish room behind the wall against which the tank was displayed. So, noise and water temp were controlled. We moved, and now our only option for a big tank is our LR, with a TINY bit of space (1' deep X 4.5' width) of wall space in a pantry that backs to the tank. For a 300g system, chiller's going to set us back over $1200, so I'd rather avoid it by good planning if I can.

No doubt about lights and heat; the answer there may be to keep halides to one or two pendants and rely mainly on T-5s (which are cheaper to run and replace, too, as I'm sure you know.j

What we found in our previous build was this: we had two pumps (mag 24 and another 800gph) in the system (returns and skimmer), and ran a closed loop. When we reconfigured our tank room, we replaced all those with a Dart and a recirc pump. System temps reduced dramatically! So, I'm sensitive to how much heat pumps can add to a system. Hence my queries about Tunzes. It has seemed from previous posts that there's a noise (VorTech) / heat (Tunze) tradeoff that we need to consider. However, you say that your VorTechs are quiet, which is reassuring.

 

[melev]

The Mag 24 was your biggest heater, after the lights. There is no doubt about that. I've been running external pumps on my reef since I set it up, and it came with an Ampmaster 4700. When I replaced that beast with a Little Giant, the tank temperature dropped at least two degrees.

I'm using Lumenbright reflectors, so keep in mind that I don't have the heat issues commonly associated with MH lighting. They only run 6 hours a day instead of 9-10 hours, and I have them where the bulbs are 18" off the water instead of 9". Two Icecap fans keep the warm air off the water.

A few days ago, the temperature here was a record breaking 84F, so the window a/c was running in the fishroom, and eventually I even turned on the house a/c too. Of course the next day, if not that very night, I was resisting the urge to turn on the heater for the home. The weather has been all over the place lately.

If it is hot and humid where you live, like it is here in Texas, a chiller is the best way to keep the tank stable if you don't keep your home around 74-76F.

 

[rEd86]

I would have to agree with Marc on the noise.

I have two VorTech MP40w pumps running at the office on a 265g tank (3/4" glass) and I don't really notice them. I am not sure why some people are having problems with noise. I don't think I vary the speed setting, so maybe that's where the noise comes into play. Another factor might be the thickness of their glass and the settings of the spacer. (with 3/4" glass you don't use the spacer...) Since it's magnetic, you have to adjust it or else the magnetic field isn't aligned and can result in some vibrating/noise.

--Ed

 

[rEd86]

Double post.

 

[juniormc8704]

btw, the Marineland 300 DD has 1/2" sides, its the bottom that is extra thick.

I just went and measured mine.

 

[Somrschool]

GREAT to know, thanks.

I'm leaning towards Vortechs. Listened to a U-Tube film on one and it did not seem loud. Heat concerns and no cords in tanks are big sellers for me.

Question: do we want to create an actual WAVE in the big tank, or just good flow... some videos of Vortechs show wave motion, which I never thought was the goal. I just thought random currents were the goal.

Thoughts?

 

[melev]

I think the wave is neat, but I prefer random flow. That is why all of mine are set as master, so they each do whatever they want when they want. That would seem to be more random than if the pumps communicated their flow patterns with each other. They are all in Reefcrest mode.