best nw skimmer out there?

[hahnmeister]

Sure, anyone can post a pic of any skimmer putting out tea-colored skimmate. But can you post pics of a BM putting out dark, coffee colored skimmate? The lighter skimmate color is more of a consequence of having a short skimmer with a short bubble dwell time... if the bubbles cant get enough skimmate by the time they get to the top, they will condense in the neck, and as they condense, they will drain... leaking nutrients back into the skimmer rather than removing them. So the response it to skim wetter, to prevent the 'leaking'. But this wouldnt be a problem if the bubbles were more nutrient laden. There are two ways to do this though... longer dwell time w/ less turbulence, and more nutrient laden water. It seems to me that the only time the ATI's pull darker skimmate is on heavy load tanks (so its no doubt that ATI would rate the 250 for such large tanks, because without enough bioload, the skimmer wont perform as well).

This is why comparing skimmers by saying which takes out more, or darker, or lighter skimmate, is a joke. The only way to compare two skimmers objectively is to set them up at the same time on the same system, and see which one pulls more skimmate. But wait... what about dark vs. light skimmate? Well... you need to condense the skimmate and weight the remaining solid material. Thats it. Otherwise, all this 'this skimmer makes darker skimmate so it must be better' or 'this skimmer pulls more skimmate out than the last one' means nothing. But I will bet one thing... based on the designs alone, the turbulence in the BM250 kills the performance much more than the BK.

Your pics confirm it somewhat magvi. Look at how the bubbles in the neck are condensing into larger bubbles as they rise in the neck... thats because they are unstable and pop. In a BK, the bubbles rise and rise, and stay small, until they build that foam at the top... much more foam per lph.

 

[mavgi]

some dark picture :lol:

by the way "spayke" have BK300 when i get my BM300 i will put both to test them in his tank if he will accept it

with the mesh the bubble at the begin are bigger when the skimmer break in they are fine , i believe even with the new RD mesh pump it will be the same .when you will test your Sicce pump you will see it ....

 

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, test them side by side in the same sump at the same time... and try to set them to make the same color skimmate... otherwise, the best way to compare actual volumes of skimmate is to condense them to solid.

 

[hahnmeister]

"with the mesh the bubble at the begin are bigger when the skimmer break in they are fine , i believe even with the new RD mesh pump it will be the same .when you will test your Sicce pump you will see it ...."

Depends on the dwell time... more stable bubbles in the neck are due to more surfactants on the bubble... nothing else. Just like having water with no soap, water with some soap, and water with alot of soap... the more soap, the more stable the bubbles. Same with skimmate... if the bubbles are stable, they wont combine as much. And the only ways to get bubbles with more surfactants is to increase the bubble effectiveness, or to increase the amount of surfactants in the water. On taller skimmers, you can observe bubbles in the neck that dont even condense... its just fine bubbles from the bottom to the dry head at the top because each bubble is that much more stable.

 

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10066919#post10066919 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Yeah, test them side by side in the same sump at the same time... and try to set them to make the same color skimmate... otherwise, the best way to compare actual volumes of skimmate is to condense them to solid.

that is the way i am sure will be the real compare to put both in the same sump and to see how perform better i am sure i am not wrong .... and i will put my BM250 with his BK300 .

the BM300 will be to power full for the BK300 :lol:

by the way look on "Vegas_ReefMan" BM250 and in the begin he want to return it back....

 

[jaggy]

what about the tunze master skimmers?

 

[boxfishpooalot]

^

Too small for my liking. You need hieght for a good skimmer. Height, bubbles and no turbulence. BM skimmers look good but there are still flaws.

Maybee a diy skimmer would be better..... :lol: Then I know exactly what im getting.

 

[King-Kong]

Uhm.. Hahnmeister, even if what you said was actually backed up by testing, I think you're missing another big attribute of any product comparison.

You just compared the BK300 to the BM250. A $2500 skimmer to a $750 one.

 

[jaggy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10067257#post10067257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
^

Too small for my liking. You need hieght for a good skimmer. Height, bubbles and no turbulence. BM skimmers look good but there are still flaws.

Maybee a diy skimmer would be better..... :lol: Then I know exactly what im getting.

Very interesting you say that as Tunze say the oppisite, they state that a skimmer needs to be short and wide as a tall skimmer can rip the protiens from the air bubbles

 

[jaggy]

here is there words

"It can be observed that when air
bubbles are produced proteins are absorbed immediately. In
practice it can be observed that the absorbed matter is torn off the
air bubbles again by skimmers with a high construction. For this
reason, all TUNZE® DOC skimmers have very short reactors with
a high air output."

 

[mavgi]

boxfishpooalot :

if you can order from Orca and to build what you want it will be the best this is the true .

King-Kong :

IMO BK are very good skimmer but for sure not the best ppl want to believe on that but it's not true to be the best there is a lot of other things that we want to check it's like the new Korallenzucht some one test it and said it's better , or plankton friendly..... realy a good joke ....

if you compare a good Deltec or good H&S skimmer that come near to this prices of the BK 300 they will smoke out the performance of the BK...

when some one tell me it's the "best" personal i do a simple compare :

take the BK300 it's cost about $2700 put near to it the H&S 300 + 3 1260 it's cost $1900 i am sure the H&S will perform better ....

now take 2 BM250 they cost about $1600 if you put both they will perform 100% better then the other 2 with less money ....

for long term when you have those skimmer and spend a lot of money for them and the warranty expire if you have problem or lose pump the last thing you want to lose it's RD pump....
IMO when we look on the "best skimmer" we want to look and compare more other things to tell it's the "best" .....

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10067379#post10067379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
Uhm.. Hahnmeister, even if what you said was actually backed up by testing, I think you're missing another big attribute of any product comparison.

You just compared the BK300 to the BM250. A $2500 skimmer to a $750 one.

Well, while you are correct on that one, this thread is about the 'best nw out there', and although I would have to say that the Sicce pumps are perhaps some of the best threadwheel pumps on the market (hope threawheel counts too...lol), the Red Dragons are as well, and the body that the Sicce pumps get put on is not the best. So the pumps are good, but the body... IMO... its garbage compared to what else you could do with that pump. The Master DOC is a better implimentation of that pump... a large skimmer body with space to diffuse the turbulence... but once again... $$$$$.

But you will notice that I also compared the BM250 to a Euroreef 250 which is under $500 and I have no doubt will perform the same if not better as the $770 ATI. If nothing else, the ER RC250 doesnt have that 7" cylinder that forces all the water and air to the top fast... its a 8" cylinder, with half the water flow and air, and in a setting where the water turbulence is left behind at the bottom of the skimmer because the water turbulence goes from the pump inlet to the exit at the bottom of the skimmer... not up and with the air bubbles. So really, its a much calmer skimmer on the inside... and much taller for a better contact time... and even though it only does 60% of the air that the BM250 does... its just using it 2x better. We all know that merely blowing the most air into the water doesnt make for the best skimmer. So no, I didnt miss that aspect... I covered it as well. Seriously, Id put the ER RC 250 up against a BM250 any day and I bet the ER would win.

 

[sjm817]

Hahn, the RC250 (Eheim recirc) is ~ $1K. The RS250 (Gen-X non recirc) is under $500.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Hahn, I'm confused. You meantion a $500 ER 250 skimmer (which I assume to be the RS version) and then you compare the ATI with the ER RC250 (which costs $1000). Is the ER RS250 therefore as good or better than the BM 250? Just trying to clarify.

 

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10061540#post10061540 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I would have to say that the best possible skimmer would be from ORCA or a Volcano from aquaticacrylics.com, because they will make whatever you want.

So what do I ask them to make to make it the best possible skimmer? I was going to buy a H&S A200 but if your saying custum making one would be better, which characteristics/designs do I want incorporated?

 

[jimbo045]

Coralife Super Skimmer is the ideal one. JD

 

[kodyboy]

I would say the best possible skimmer would take into account
1) what size is your system, and always assume heavy load to be on the safe side
2) how much space do you have for a skimmer (height, footprint etc.)
3) in sump or external
4) efficiency, does this matter to you, cost of electricity vs. air pull etc.
5) noise---can it be noisy or do you want a super-quiet unit?
5) cost- yes cost although some of you may be independently wealthy most of us are not and cost plays a huge part in our decisions.

 

[sirreal63]

Very interesting discussion. It seems as soon as there is a new skimmer on the market everyone jumps on the bandwagon and proclaims it the best bang for the buck. To all of those people who bought an AquaC Remora, Coralife Superskimmer, ASM G, Octopus, BM...consider this...a skimmer is only as good as the pump that is driving it, air volume has to be matched to the skimmer size. Too much air and you get blow by, not enough air and you lose efficiency. I have a G3 that I spent a great deal of time on to get the most out of it. Stock Sedra 5000, recirculating and gate valve with an extra venturi on the intake. I am feeding it with a GenX 1500 that has been mesh modded and has a very aggressive venturi that will pull a lot of air. I have an air valve on the feed pump to tune the air input. Too much air and skimming is lost. I can pull enough air into the G3 body to completely fill the chamber and push foam out the exit tube. Any skimmer can be fine tuned and can perform. My G3 has done very well, but it didn't do as good straight from the box as it does today. It took a little tinkering with the air. Even a crappy superskimmer can be tuned.

This isn't the best NW skimmer out there but for what little I have in it nothing else compares. Poor build quality, leaks at the joints but gives me skim like this.

Freshly cleaned and milky white small bubbles,

daily production, and I skim a little on the wet side.

Any skimmer can be made to perform better and you don't have to spend thousands of dollars on a skimmer, tune the one you have.

Of course this is just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10068928#post10068928 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Hahn, the RC250 (Eheim recirc) is ~ $1K. The RS250 (Gen-X non recirc) is under $500.

Oops, yeah... I meant RS250. Thats what I was comparing to the BM250.

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10069061#post10069061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ralphie16
So what do I ask them to make to make it the best possible skimmer? I was going to buy a H&S A200 but if your saying custum making one would be better, which characteristics/designs do I want incorporated?

]

Dont get me wrong, a H&S A200 is a pretty hard skimmer to beat. Maybe ORCA can make the same skimmer with an eheim 1262 and a $100 needlewheel from Euroreef, but you might just be better off with the A200... dont get me wrong, Im not saying that the A200 isnt as good as or better... just that if you wanted, ORCA could replicate it from the ground up... and from what Ive heard... maybe for less $$$. In my case, I want like a 4.5' version of a H&S A200 2x1260 with a wetneck... H&S wont make this... at least not for a price that is reasonable (although H&S does do custom), but ORCA will.