Big fish in small tanks stunts growth.. Does this make fish unhappy?

[roper512]

I read something I think in this forum about how if you put a small tang in a small tank that it will only grow as large as it feels comfortable in the tank.. Effectively stunting it's growth.

Now my question is, is this something that stresses or upsets the fish?

My reason for asking isn't to make people think they can just buy baby fish and stick them in their nano's but mainly just to understand. Because I have heard lots of "dont put this fish in this size tank" but then I've also heard people keeping Hippo tangs in 29 gallons that are "healthy" for years and they don't seem to grow as large as they should.

So, what do you guys think?

 

[doody]

How stressed would you get if I made you live in a closet?

 

[artful-dodger]

I don't think "happy" is an accurate term but there certainly is behavioral evidence that fish stress (and health) can be affected by size of tank, availability of hiding places, number/quantity of co-inhabitants, temperature swings, food variety, etc. Stunted growth is only one small part of the picture...if that were all that happened, then it probably wouldn't be a big deal. [on the other hand, do a google search for 'banzai kitten' sometime]

Keeiping fish that normally swim over large territories (or that school) but have to "pace" back and forth in a small tank is just subjectively cruel (like trying to make a greyhound into an apartment dog...yes, it can live, but without its proper exercise, it won't thrive.)

 

[kalare]

While I agree with the above comment, I think a better answer may be something like:

Those fish in small tanks may live for years, but the lifespan of the fish is most likely much shorter than it shuold be. Show my a tang in a 29g for 15 years, then we'll talk. That being said, stunting a fish's growth isn't healthy either. It's been known that deformities can occur...an example being the spine/backbone of the fish gets very crooked. Not a good idea.

Just letting you know as well. A small tang in a 29g may work for as long as a year or two without much growth, but that's not a success as the fish still has the potential for much more growth and longevity than a small tank can offer.

 

[mcegelsk]

The answer is yes the fish will be unhappy. Many fish require a certain amount of swimming/sprinting room. So like doody said...it would definitely suck to live in a closet.

 

[Amphiprion]

I am not one to assign emotions to a fish, but there are practical reasons why you wouldn't want to "bonsai" your fish. As stated above, it is proven to reduce lifespans--there is no reason to unnaturally shorten these animals' lifespans due to inadequacy in tank size. Often these fish will look and behave in a perfectly content fashion, as they would in the wild, but will be considerably stunted (due to diet, small tank, or both). Usually the effects are not necessarily manifested in "happiness", but overall health. At least that is my view on the matter.

 

[roper512]

Good info all, thanks!

 

[Bret61081]

IMO yes it does make the fish unhappy. I think thats why a lot of people say Yellow tangs are aggressive, usually they are in 55G tanks. I had one in my tank for 6 months...it grew quite a bit during that time and the bigger it got the more aggressive it got. I also have a small female Blue Throat trigger. I've had her since June and so far shes been great...lately, Ive seen her going after a few fish. she has NEVER done this till recently, I do think that its b/c she is unhappy in the tank. Just my opinion but who knows...we'll see...either upgrade or I'll have toget rid of her aswell...which I dont want to do...

 

[Kent E]

I concur. I had a yellow in a 120 and if I added another tank it would kill it.

I now have a 450 and the tangs school. I have noticed major behavior changes. Fish need room or they freakout.

 

[doody]

All that aside, big fish + small tank = high load

 

[onereefnotenuf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6804610#post6804610 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by artful-dodger
I don't think "happy" is an accurate term but there certainly is behavioral evidence that fish stress (and health) can be affected by size of tank, availability of hiding places, number/quantity of co-inhabitants, temperature swings, food variety, etc. Stunted growth is only one small part of the picture...if that were all that happened, then it probably wouldn't be a big deal. [on the other hand, do a google search for 'banzai kitten' sometime]

Keeiping fish that normally swim over large territories (or that school) but have to "pace" back and forth in a small tank is just subjectively cruel (like trying to make a greyhound into an apartment dog...yes, it can live, but without its proper exercise, it won't thrive.)

if taking a fish from unlimited space and placing it in a 6'x2' box or 4'x1.5' box is cruel then please explain how a 8'x3' makes any difference? you are taking it from miles of cruising area down to feet, i don't think that the fish is any"happier" in a big box as opposed to a small one. i am not talking about water chemistry here. just space and health related to the amount of space the fish has. from reading a lot of posts on this subject, it seems to me that those who berate others because they have a tank too small, have larger tanks and believe their tank is adequate. i don't believe a fish in captivity is stress free no matter how big the home aquarium is.I also think that it is different to have a juvinile fish grow in one tank it's entire life versus throwing a large fish in a tank. the fish that grew up in the same size tank is much less stressed than a full grown one dumped in a small tank.

 

[SerranidTerror]

I guess I'll throw my two cents in here as well. Working in the pet shop industry I too often have people ask me if a fish will grow to the size of the tank because they have a small tank and want something like an oscar. I refuse to do things like this since i've seen too many deformed oscars alone, due to being kept in small tanks. Someone brought up the issue of spine deformity, which is very important. From what I've been taught is that sometimes what happens when growth is put on hold not all the body parts listen, like the spine for instance, it may still grow at a different rate. (If anyone has more accurate knowledge on this and would like to elaborate or correct me please do!)

As far as the observations of aggressiveness in smaller tanks as the fish grows or otherwise... Sometimes we all too readily try to explain animal behavior through human emotions and the way we are. I'm not knocking the theory that a fish may be "happy" or is posing for the camera, they may very well be (how are we supposed to know) But I would lead this behavior more to instinct. All the fish knows is that it is stuck in some small place perhaps like a tidepool. So its first "thought" is hey since it is a small place food can become very scarce in here very quickly. So any fish or invertebrate that may possibly eat what I eat is a competitor and therefore must be dealt with. And of course this becomes more important as the fish grows simply because the fish's metabolism goes up (and not in a linear fashion right?). And of course this all leads to stress and stress leads to unhealthy, non-thriving fish.

The one other point I really liked is when someone said they want to see a healthy tang after living for 15 years in a 29 gallon tank. So many people do not realize how long fish really do live. Too often I hear people tell me they kept a goldfish in a bowl for a whole 3 years before it died so therefore my advice on goldfish not doing well in bowls is not very good advice. Imagine how they feel when I tell them the true lifespan of a goldfish...

This was a really good thread Roper. Hopefully this thread may better inform someone who is contemplating getting some of the ocean's larger gems in their small replication of the ocean.

 

[kalare]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6807171#post6807171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by onereefnotenuf
if taking a fish from unlimited space and placing it in a 6'x2' box or 4'x1.5' box is cruel then please explain how a 8'x3' makes any difference? you are taking it from miles of cruising area down to feet, i don't think that the fish is any"happier" in a big box as opposed to a small one. i am not talking about water chemistry here. just space and health related to the amount of space the fish has. from reading a lot of posts on this subject, it seems to me that those who berate others because they have a tank too small, have larger tanks and believe their tank is adequate. i don't believe a fish in captivity is stress free no matter how big the home aquarium is.I also think that it is different to have a juvinile fish grow in one tank it's entire life versus throwing a large fish in a tank. the fish that grew up in the same size tank is much less stressed than a full grown one dumped in a small tank.

Depending on the fish it can make a great difference. Different fish have different habits. A clownfish will never leave its anemone and therefore it's "roaming territory" is quite small, say a square meter or less. A tang is MUCH different. Putting a fish with different swimming habits (i.e. likes to swim alot) in a tank with much more squar footage will make a difference. If you ever get the chance to do an upgrade from a 55 (4x1 ft) to say hundreds (8x3) you'll notice a difference in behavior, I guarantee it.

 

[Fishyfreak031592]

I actually did an experiment last year "would a fish grow bigger if it was in a bigger fishtank?" I used goldfish though, nor saltwater fish...but i found out that fish WILL grow larger if they are in a bigger fish tank. The goldfish that i had in the smaller tank died more than in the larger ones. I think this was due to stress. So i would say that fish in smaller tanks makes them unhappy, unless its like a clown goby in a nano, that would be fine, but, you get the idea...

 

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6807538#post6807538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SerranidTerror
The one other point I really liked is when someone said they want to see a healthy tang after living for 15 years in a 29 gallon tank. So many people do not realize how long fish really do live.

Bingo ... in good conditions, fish can live quite a long time.

I haven't seen many tangs kept in small tanks for years ... and IMO success with aquaria is measured in years.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6807171#post6807171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by onereefnotenuf
if taking a fish from unlimited space and placing it in a 6'x2' box or 4'x1.5' box is cruel then please explain how a 8'x3' makes any difference?

Its the difference between me confining you to your bathroom, and confining you to your apartment. Both are confining, one is a lot more so.

 

[tryffin]

onereefnotenuf that makes sense, I would think a naso raised in captivity would be less stressed in a 230 than a specimen taken from the wild as an adult, simply because it is used to having a smaller territory. RichConley that makes sense too.

My first marine book but one I still find interesting was Dakin's Encyclopedia of the Saltwater Aquarium, and he has from his observations max size in the wild and in the aquarium, and it seems to make sense. Some list smaller like yellow tang 8" wild 4-6" aquarium, auriga bfy 8" wild 6" aquarium ... to opposite end of the spectrum for example 6line as 2" wild 3" aquarium, and resplendant angel 1.5" wild 2.5" aquarium. I've sort of used this as a guide of what to likely expect if I buy a fish small. Fish with large dietary needs I think simply won't grow as large in our tanks because we can't replicate their natural diet from the wild, while some species that come from more barren areas will actually grow larger because they are better fed by a human than their natural territory.

That being said, I wouldn't keep a tang in an overly small tank for too long, but I've known people to keep babies in a smaller tank and move them when they grow ... anyone who cares about their pets and has an ounce of awareness can tell when they are starting to get stressed. Of course it's good to recommend people not do it because too many people mean to upgrade but end up not doing so either because the initial thrill of the hobby wears off, or can't afford or get around to upgrading to a larger tank.

I've also seen people locally who have large tanks but feed their fish only once or twice a week (because they're worried about nitrates and their corals), and I find that to be just as cruel as keeping a large fish in a small tank (and probably stunts the growth just as much.)

 

[PuffersKick]

If you sit a think about it how could any fish be truly happy in any size tank? I don't care if you have a 10,000 gallon tank. It's still an enclosed space which will never come close to their natural environment in the wild.... But once they are caught that is the life they will have forever so they must adapt and you as the fish keeper just do everything in your power to keep them as happy as possible...

 

[tryffin]

Well said, PuffersKick

Of course our tanks have one big benefit to the wild ... no predators.

 

[davidcalgary29]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6818931#post6818931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PuffersKick
If you sit a think about it how could any fish be truly happy in any size tank? I don't care if you have a 10,000 gallon tank. It's still an enclosed space which will never come close to their natural environment in the wild.... But once they are caught that is the life they will have forever so they must adapt and you as the fish keeper just do everything in your power to keep them as happy as possible...

Most wild fish do not enjoy unlimited living spaces, but must compete with others of their kind for very limited resources. I agree that any aquarium represents a vastly reduced living space for almost all fish, but glass is really just a substitute for the zoological "cages" that exist in the wild. I think that most aquarium species will be happy as long as we can compensate for loss of space with other things that make fish "happy", such as a predator-free life and ample food (unless you're a moorish idol!)